Do you keep track of non-smart household items in Home Assistant?

I’ve been thinking about this recently and I’m curious what other Home Assistant users do.

The thought came up while I was looking at some of the tools and cooking stuff I’ve accumulated over the years and wondering how much of it I actually remember that I have.

Home Assistant knows an incredible amount about what’s going on in our houses, but obviously most of the stuff we own isn’t “smart” and HA has no idea it exists.

I’m thinking less about furniture or making a home inventory for insurance purposes and more about useful stuff. Tools in the garage, kitchen equipment, appliances, spare parts, filters, equipment, things stored in the basement, etc.

I’ve looked around a little and I see ways to inventory things, such as HomeBox. My bigger question is whether anyone actually finds keeping this information worthwhile over the long term.

If you do keep track of this kind of stuff, how do you leverage the information?

And if you’ve tried doing it and eventually gave up, why? Too much of a PITA keeping everything up to date? Didn’t leverage the info? Something else?

I’m not necessarily looking for a particular integration or solution at this point. I’m more curious whether people have found having this kind of information about their home useful enough that they continue keeping track of it.

Until I get full camera coverage with AI to keep track of everything successfully this is way too much work for me.

For insurance just do a video where you walk through the property.

I use Govee temperature sensors to track the temperature in my freezer & fridge; I use smart plugs to tell me when the washer & drier have finished & also to turn them off so there’s no phantom power. Likewise my microwave & toaster oven turn on when I enter the pantry & turn off when I leave unless they’re being used (power draw). I have 2 air conditioners that via smart plugs turn on or off depending on the room temperatures. (Also tracks the energy & power.) I have an exhaust fan which is also controlled by a smart plug (if it’s colder outside than inside). Two dehumidifiers in the basement that turn on or off depending on the humidity. My TV & lights in my study are controlled by smart plugs. Various lights in my bedroom are controlled by presence & time via smart plugs. Via one of those smart plugs I get an alert when the power goes off (my HA RPi is on a UPS). Lights in my driveway & stairs to my door are separately controlled by smart plugs depending on movement, my presence, or the time of day.

That’s kind of where my head was at too. Trying to keep it updated seems like the part that would eventually kill it for me. If the camera coverage with AI piece actually worked and keeping track of everything required basically no effort, have you ever thought of how you would use the info?

A full, up-to-date inventory of my fridges and freezers would be nice. Using that thought it’s easy to say that a database of all items in drawers, cabinets and so on would be great. Creating it and maintaining it would be a never ending nightmare, especially if you are the only one interested in keeping it maintained in the household.

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That’s a lot of automation! I was thinking a little more about the stuff that never gets connected to HA at all, such as tools, kitchen equipment, spare parts, things stored away, etc. Have you ever bothered keeping track of any of that?

It wont help you finding the screwdriver, or the folding rule, next time you need it :rofl:

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Exactly. Without any technology that can keep track of where stuff without any manual extra steps it’s hopeless and will be useless after just a short while. I actually tried entering my battery stock (AA, AAA, CR2032) and so on into Grocy, it took 2 weeks and then it was out of date.

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The Grocy example is exactly the kind of thing I was wondering about. Two weeks is pretty telling. Do you think there’s a difference between trying to track consumable stuff like batteries or food versus things that don’t change very often, like tools or appliances? Or do you think even that eventually becomes too much work to keep accurate?

It a massive task just to populate the data. Then you need to keep it up to date for it to be useful. It’s much easier to just have the tools at a logical spot.

I personally wouldn’t even try to catalog all my stuff like that. Way too much effort, & WAY too much maintenance, & guaranteed to be out of date immediately around here.

However … I DO use HA to keep track of some non-HA devices-- those that have batteries, like flashlights, power tools, remote controls, etc.. It’s extremely helpful to keep track of which devices need what type and quantity of battery, and when they’ve last been replaced, and sometimes how to go about swapping out the batteries. I don’t try to even track the spare battery inventory, and I don’t track device locations more than general area (e.g., “Shop” or "Kitchen:) --and I don’t necessarily count on location being accurate.

To make battery tracking work, I do affix a unique numbered label to each tracked item. I use two HACS integrations in HA for this: Fake Devices to create the “placeholder” devices, and Battery Notes to keep track of the battery info on each. (And of course, Battery Notes is very useful on actual HA devices that are battery-powered, like sensors.)

I personally look at the issue from a different point of view.

A human keeping a detailed household inventory current is hard. It will ALWAYS BE hard. I have absolutely no desire to scan every battery, update every drawer, or tell a database whenever I move a screwdriver. As someone said above, that system will remain beautifully accurate for approximately two weeks.

So I don’t want the human keeping track of it at all frankly, the agent should.

You know, the one you’re all going to have running in your home in less than five years. (we’re at the beginning of an IBM PC type event; I’m fairly convinced this is about to become a thing as price and capability converges…)

This is also why I firmly believe that agent belongs INSIDE Home Assistant.

You are constantly generating signals you don’t even realize are signals. Power consumption, temperature, flow, occupancy, room activity, schedules, purchases, completed chores, camera observations, device state, conversations, and a hundred other tiny events individually look like noise.

Over time, they form patterns your system can use to keep track of that sh- stuff for you.

A real example from my system.

ZenOS has a physical Plant manager. It can setup practically anything in the house that is a thing with a process as a managed machine: an HVAC compressor, air handler, water heater, freezer, dishwasher, washing machine, garage door, sump pump, water softener, vacuum, or hot tub.

Each machine can have two connected views.

The first is operational. Home Assistant can see that the machine is running, drawing power, changing temperature, moving water, completing a cycle, or behaving differently from normal. (This is through binding the ‘machine’ together through labels and such…

The second is physical. The agent knows what the machine is, where it lives, which parts and consumables belong to it, what stock is available, which chores are due, and which documents or service records relate to it. This is care of Grocy.

Consider an HVAC system. The thermostat provides room temperature, mode, setpoint, and demand. The physical model contains the compressor, air handler, filters, their locations, replacement stock, and maintenance chores.

Those pieces become one managed thing from the agent’s point of view.

With a single unified tool view, the agent can see that runtime has increased, connect that with weather and room behavior, know which filter the air handler uses, determine whether one should be in stock, check when it was last changed, find the manual, and create or surface the appropriate work.

YOU don’t need to remember to “update the inventory database” as a separate hobby. The inventory just becomes part of HA automating the machine.

That is the whole ball o wax.

A useful household model emerges from signals the home is already producing. The agent maintains the relationships, remembers the history, notices the patterns, and asks a human only when uncertainty actually matters.

It doesn’t need omniscient, centimeter-perfect knowledge of every object. It needs enough useful truth to answer practical questions:

  • What do we probably have?

  • Where does it normally live?

  • Which machine or activity is it associated with?

  • When was it last seen, used, purchased, or serviced?

  • How confident is the answer?

  • Does the uncertainty ACTUALLY matter right now? (Usually no)

If I ask for a furnace filter, the agent should be able to say, “There should be one on the garage shelving. You bought a two-pack in March and changed one in April.”

That is useful. If her confidence is low, she can ask me once and learn from the answer.

Lest you think I’m describing some distant AI future, my Home Assistant agent already does variations of this today.

Friday maintains structured household memory, understands rooms and the people using them, connects equipment and supplies to where they live, searches manuals and documents, manages household work, and reasons across the systems operating the place. She can compare food inventory with a recipe, identify shortages, handle unit conversions, estimate cost, consume stock, log waste, and return leftovers to inventory. The agent now tracks chores, maintenance, service requests, schedules, machine consumables, equipment wear, guests, household preferences, and the live state of rooms. She can retrieve supporting information from manuals, notes, tickets, documents, and the household knowledge base whenever she needs more detail. She already works across HVAC, energy, water, lighting, shades, security, cameras, media, plants, and the spa. She can assemble the relevant context proactively, so I don’t have to interrogate every system separately.

She is also capable of doing the household books, including inventory costing, waste, depreciation, and COGS, well, as soon as I finish supplying the source data and setting up the starting books.

The limiting factor in that last one is currently the human, who has apparently constructed an AI accountant so he can procrastinate about accounting more efficiently. :slight_smile:

The home develops a living semantic model of its spaces, people, machinery, supplies, knowledge, and activity. The agent uses that model to quietly remove clerical work from the humans living there.

We get to remain our best lazy selves.

The agent gets the clerical job. My question is what actually is a “non-smart household item” in an actual smart home… :smiling_face_with_sunglasses: I’d say none such exists…

This is fascinating and way beyond what I expected when I posted the question. I hadn’t come across ZenOS before this.

Your point about the agent maintaining useful truth rather than trying to create a perfectly accurate inventory really resonates with what I was wondering about. The Grocy example above is probably the opposite case (if a person has to constantly maintain the state, it seems destined to fail).

I’m going to spend some time reading through the ZenOS project before asking you a bunch of questions you’ve probably already answered elsewhere.

One thing I am curious about though: how much of Friday’s knowledge today is something you’ve had to intentionally structure and/or setup versus information that it’s been able to infer or accumulate through normal use of the house?

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This is really interesting and maybe gets at something I hadn’t considered (only tracking the things where having the information is actually useful, rather than trying to inventory everything). Do you find yourself adding other information about those devices over time beyond the battery stuff, or have you intentionally kept it pretty narrow because that’s where the value is?

Yes it will. B. :wink:

Best answer will happen after you read the hypergraph stuff and the label index - but in short you’d be surprised how much crap your house already knows - nobody bothered to tell anyone what that stuff means. They also dont even to attempt to teach traditional system A to look for all cases of BDCLKKYYZ (feel me?) you just cant do it - it gets fuzzy fast. BUT If i tell the thing doing the inference what the inference stuff means (before letting them dry guess) the quality of the answer gets WAY IMPROVED. I mean I always did better in a final when I bothered to sit the class too…

The rest basically comes down to creating a taxonomy / ontology the model can reason over in a way that makes sense unto itself (you shouldn’t need instructions to see what’s goin’ on) so that when you do all that ^^^ see prev. It just kina knows and then - “A to look for all cases of BDCLKKYYZ” doesn’t have to happen because its a bounded (based in fact) statistics based (neural net in the seat) direction (really breaks down to a categorizer problem) instead.

It was a joke, cause people “like me” keep “replacing” things … " oh i just put it here(nearby or something, not obvious plase), so i can pick it up later " :joy:

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@gdgtboy - Well. the only other info I track on non-HA devices is whatever I enter when creating the “fake device”-- besides battery info, it has some other fields that can hold manufacturer, model #, & serial #. I sometimes enter those (if available). But no, I don’t do any additional maintenance or tracking – I simply notify it when I change out batteries.

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