Home Automation vs. Home Monitoring

I’m starting to realize I’m coming at HA from a different angle than most users here.

I’m wondering whether there are others here who focus more on home monitoring than automation.

I love technology, so I’ll never say bad things about automations, voice controls or all the other advanced functions. I won’t even argue the value of bed occupancy sensors or toothbrush activity sensors.

But for me, the practical justification for HA is being able to monitor what’s going on in my house, both when I’m away and when I’m home. I do things like:

  • Monitoring when my heating system boiler is running, and keeping a running total.
  • Monitoring when each heating/cooling zone is running, and again keeping totals.
  • Monitoring when my sump pumps are running, or not.
  • Monitoring inside temperatures around the house, not only at the thermostats but also in some out-of-the-way places where frozen pipes could be a problem in winter.
  • Being able to remotely reset (power off/on) individual security cameras.

Where I live, a burst pipe or a flooded cellar could be extremely costly. Knowing when I can turn the heat off in an unused room without risking a frozen pipe allows me to burn less fuel. Being able to monitor things when I’m away minimizes the impact of any failures.

These are the mission-critical features. Everything else is just fun and games. Sure, I have remote light switches. It’s great not to have to get up to flip a switch, and there’s even some value in running automations to turn lights on and off on a schedule when I’m away. Although frankly, there are simple timers which can do that far more reliably and inexpensively.

Anybody with me on this?

My friend who got me into HA uses it much more for monitoring.
I use much more automation.

It is interesting, and maybe a testament to how versatile the system is.
Samsung SmartThings out of the box is much worse in terms of monitoring so it’s nice to have a system that’s strong with both.

In fairness though I use Node-Red for most of my automations… So maybe it is better at monitoring things, but it’s flexible as heck, so it gets all the awards I suppose!

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I use HA for mostly monitoring and remote control of things if I’m away. Or if I’m too lazy to get off the couch to turn on the lights :wink:

I have a bunch of automations running but only a few actually regularly control things. Most are for updating displays and displaying those things on the UI.

WAF (or WUF - Unacceptance) has a lot to do with it but even without that I don’t know how much more I would automate things like lighting. Lighting use is too situational & nuanced to have any automation system handle all of the possible required permutations.

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Well said. I tend to agree. At least for me. And it seems the more people live in a home, the more chaotic the lighting needs would be.

I know the foundation of a lot of HA stuff is presence detection; do stuff when I enter/leave a room. For a number of reasons, that doesn’t resonate with me. I’m not knocking it, just not my thing. Maybe I’m unpredictable. Or maybe just crotchety.

Another one I can’t embrace is voice control or TTS. I’ve worked a whole career with computers. Believe me, they don’t want to hear what I have to say to them. And I really don’t want to hear from them, either. I recall too well when that “feature” was first introduced in cars… “Your Door Is A Jar.” Yeah, there’s a reason that never caught on.

I’m going to say again, I’m not against any of this. Any technology is cool in its own right; you don’t need to justify it to me or anyone. I just happen to have my own priorities.

Yes, I read about some people’s setups and think Wow. Then I realise they probably live alone, and that is probably because nice girls don’t marry geeks :slight_smile:

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I ended up getting into home assistant because I wanted to monitor the temperature in the attic.

Where I live (Ireland) it’s common (and yet still stupid on so many levels) to have your own fresh water tank in the attic of the house, it’s also common for that attic to be uninsulated so when winter comes, those few days off the year when temperature is below freezing your water tank is at risk of freezing.

I was unlucky (depending on perspective) to learn that I have way more heat escaping from my house into my attic than I thought, by placing a couple of temperature sensors around the house and into the attic and logging / graphing the time series data.

I’m finding it hard to find a case where a mechanical or electronically controlled dumb timer has more sense.

I ended up getting zigbee lights in the garden because for the 2 GU10 lights I needed, they were a more elegant solution to any other timer I’ve seen that I looked at.

I originally ended up getting a nest thermostat, not because of occupancy sensing (which is 2 years later still super buggy because my phone location floats big time when I’m home) but because it allows me to more easily set schedules and tune it, or turn it on/off, compared to the 10 button mode switching ugly timer on the wall we had before. As a cherry on top it lets me do that remotely, and it lets me turn on (boost?) my gas hot water boiler before I get home from a long trip.

  • Should I have better insulation in home? Yes. Will work in it.
  • Should I get some zero crossing sensor to pwm control my hot water immersion heater once I get solar pv? Yes. On my to-do to consider.

Do any of things need to be digital or network connected to be useful? No, but in my experience as soon as there’s an if/then case it’s usually cheaper to put a wifi or zigbee connected switch and sensor online than it is to assemble something with an offline microcontroller and buttons and LEDs or a display that would allow you to do the same/similar thing.

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Monitoring is great. Automations are great. It is neither one nor the other. I have lots of monitoring and a few automations (mainly to turn lights on at night when I pay yhe aging male 2am trip to the bathroom!). I will do more automations, but the monitoring is useful to get used to the normal rhythm of the house.

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Agreed. I also have WiFi thermostats (Honeywell) and I find the native app very easy to use. I would never have set up a heating schedule if I had to do it with the buttons on the device, or maybe even within HA. I’m convinced it really does save me money by turning down the heat when I otherwise wouldn’t be bothered to.

But just as with your water tank example, monitoring is the critical functionality which allows me to turn the heat down on a schedule, without worrying about frozen pipes.

HA adds the ability to do all the “if…then” stuff which makes life easier. Plus it’s fun to play with. Like my example of turning lights on and off for security when away. Timers work just as well, and are arguably cheaper and easier to set up than building a whole new HA environment. But once you’ve got it, the timers are no longer needed and you have even more functionality, such as being able to remotely turn it on.

I think keithcroshaw said it best; all this discussion just proves how versatile HA is. I use it for what I need, others use it differently, but we all find value in it.

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In my experience, there are several kinds of “automators”:

  1. Home Monitoring
  2. Home Reporting (monitoring, with Notifications/Alerts)
  3. Home Control (i.e. using the App to turn lights on, Voice Assistant commands, etc)
  4. Home Automation

I use monitoring by default. In order to do the other things, Monitoring has to be set up. However, I rarely actually look at the reported values except when something isn’t working right or I’m building something new.

I use quite a bit of reporting, but mostly for non-critical things. Tell me when the Washing Machine has finished. Tell me when my kid has left school. Tell me when the dogs need to be fed.

I use very little Control. I mean, I still control things, but I prefer wall switches and tactile buttons. Most of these are built into the device (the switch that monitors my lights also allows me to turn them on and off). However, I have a few buttons in various places that would otherwise do nothing that I’ve setup to control various things. I almost never use Voice or App control.

I use quite a bit of automation. Mostly surrounding lights and HVAC. Require less heat when I’m away from home. Warm up the house before I get here. Only maintain the temperature in rooms that are actually occupied. Turn lights off when a room is no longer being used. Turn lights on outside when it’s dark and I’m away from home.

If I lived in a colder climate, I would most certainly monitor, report, and automate features to prevent burst pipes. But, I want less to do, not more. So, for me, I’d turn the heat on in the room automatically when it got cold enough to put pipes at risk, and then report if that didn’t fix the problem. Sure, I can always go look at it and be sure it’s doing its job. But, once the automation has been running for a while and I can be sure it works, I wouldn’t generally take the time to do so. Just let the automation handle it, and let the reporting be my backup. In MOST cases, if the reporting fails, then the monitoring is failing too and the only way I would know it was too cold would be to actually go in the room and see it myself.

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I’ve got into HA because I have a number of devices that don’t talk. I had also investigated an automated system for UPB switches and dimmers. That was called “Home Control Assistant” (HCA). (close to HA, huh?)

That system worked OK for a few years, for what I was able to do. But integrations were few and far between. It could do UPB and Insteon, as well as RF-based X-10 motion detectors. This required one USB-based UPB transceiver, Insteon transceiver, and a X-10 receiver.

I ran it on a NUC-type SFF PC on Win 10.

And it worked. I could program “turn on and off these lights to this brightness when the Christmas schedule is active” and “Turn the outside light to 30% when it’s dark, then to 100% for 5 minutes after the front motion detector is active”. I even had a “vacation” schedule that would turn on random lights starting at random times and for random durations while it was dark.

These all worked OK. But the iOS app was not what I wanted. But it worked to turn on and off the house fan and Christmas lights when I needed. Also, things we take for granted in HA, like looking at a Lovelace card for a lamp to see when it was on or off required looking at log files in HCA.

The big problem was any new integration was at the mercy of their development cycle.
The product also wasn’t cheap. And the modules, switches, and dimmers were all from one company and if that company went under, I’d be screwed.

I even have a heater on my fish pond outside in the winter, and while my Davis Vantage Pro 2 weather station has a useful temp probe and the ability to use alarms, it doesn’t work over the Internet. Just like my alarm - local is good, but remote would be better.

The real straw that broke the camel’s back is when I needed new thermostats, I went from static programmable ones to Honeywell T5s. I could control those through an app. I was having receiver problems with my old garage door opener, so I got a new one, and it worked via MyQ, another app. I also had a Yamaha receiver, which I could use to stream media from my iOS devices…you guessed it, via another app, and I could get the alarm and weather station working with some hardware and more apps, etc.

Of course, HCA wasn’t committed to these particular platforms, so no feature allowed me to work them all with one system.

I decided I was done paying more money each year for basically static features (at least for what I was using - I didn’t care for Alexa or anything), and for my money, I wanted more flexibility.

I am generally the guy that wants everything to be under my control, so I can configure it how I want. When I get a car, I may ask the salesperson “Do you have a radio that tunes FM continuously, not every 200 kHz?” They would say, “But sir, FM station channels are 200 kHz wide, there’s no need to be able to tune, say, 101.25 MHz!” to which I’d say - well, perhaps I have a receive converter that works on some off-channel FM frequency, I can’t use it with this car!" Or, in my case, I wanted a roof-rack for bikes on my MINI, and had to go OEM. (etc.)

With HA I have (or will have after the Holidays) all the above items on HA. I built a temp probe with a Fibraro Implant with a few DS18B20 weatherproof sensors. Now I have the temp of my pond to verify the temp. And I see it on HA. I have thermostats, garage door opener, Hikvision camera integration, automations for motion brighting lights, alerts on iOS, etc.

One thing I do with HA is decide if I can deal with some old tech in HA, or if I need a new piece of kit. If my old alarm with work with with an Ethernet connection, and it works or is supported in HA, then I’ll keep it. It not, I’ll rip it out and get one that you all say works better.

Another thing I try to do is rely on the old way of doing stuff as a backup (or “local control”). Sure, I could control the pond heat by reading the temp in HA and turning on the plug where the heater is. But I currently have a heater controller that’s right at the pond, so all I need to do is monitor the temp for the unlikely event my heaters go bad…of course, I can’t change the temp without opening the box and adjusting the heat controller outside (not fun in the snow), so once I get some more confidence in HA, Zigbee, Zwave, etc. I may go the HA-only route!

Then, when left with a BIG, HUGE “states gui” page, I can decide what I want to create. Do I want my Hue lights to blink red and send me an iOS alert when the pond is hot, cold, or low? (hint…how do you tell if the pond is low? If you suddenly notice the air temp sensor and the water temp sensor are the same temp, and the water temp is not where you programmed the heater, and you set the water sensor X" below acceptable water level!)

So, the TL;DR answer is Home Monitoring is the first thing you achieve with HA. Even if your only automation is to turn on a light once HA starts, you are still needing a trigger, and a trigger is a monitor! :smiley: Then, like me, you decide, “Hey, it seems like there’s a lot of stuff that I could monitor here…how I can use those data?” and you’re off to the Home Automation races!

See you out on the track!

Cheers,

Ambi

P.S. I might add that one reason to control all your stuff first is to decide how well it works in HA and get used to the entities provided by the devices. My switches and dimmer can tell me how many Watts they’re using. So, I could add up all my switches to estimate power usage. But, maybe you’d want to get an IoTaWatt monitor hooked up to your breaker panel to monitor everything?

But what can you do with the data of “how many watts am I using” at a switch, plug, or breaker? Well, if you turn a string of Christmas lights “on” every night, and they measure 30 watts, what does it mean when the wattage does down to 10 watts? Well, you’ll at least need a history of the power over time, in case 10 watts is some transient anomaly.

But it probably means you want an iOS notification that says “Please check Christmas lights, you may have a bad string of lights” or “Your nephew is playing with the lights again!” - whatever it means to you in your situation!

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Our’s is a blend of monitoring and automated control. We have a vacation home in the highland of West Virginia, about a four hour drive. During the shoulder seasons (early spring and late fall) we would prefer to leave the base board electric heat entirely off. This has occasionally require quick drives to turn on the heat for a Halloween snow storm. So our home assistant does:

  • monitor temperature and power usage which are posted to a web page
  • if the heat is off, check current temperature for freeze risk (40F) and check 24 average temperature for comfort threshold(50F) to turn on power to the heaters.
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Nice! The mountains of WV are beautiful. As John Denver would say, “Almost Heaven…”

Your approach is exactly what I was trying to describe; coming at HA from a different angle than many here. You have a very real need to monitor and respond to conditions. Sort of a virtual building manager, rather than a virtual butler.