Homematic Thermostats GUI Problem

Hello @ all.
Im new to Home Assistent. Im successfully installed Home Assistent with Homematic support over homegear.
I am have currently only one device, a MAX! BC-RT-TRX-CyG-3. The device will show up on the local website.

But i have an issue. When i change the temperature with the up down buttons in the UI, the system sends ultimately
the new value to the thermostat. This is not good. For example i change the value from 24C to 10C the system
sends for every 0.5C step a command to the thermostat. When i click fast the UI is behind the temperature send
to the device. This means the device has set another value as in the UI.
Besides from that sending every 0.5C step is not good because of the 1% rule (the cul stops sending when 1%
of 1hour is used).
Can i change trough configuration this behavior? Or is this an programming issue?

Since I’m still running HASS version 0.38.4 I’m not aware of any changes to the UI of thermostats. For me it looks like this:

With the slider it is no problem to jump to a specific temperature without stepping through the intermediate values. This works very well and hasn’t caused any issues for me.

If the UI has changed and the slider is gone (which in my opinion would be a bad decision too), then it makes sense, that every click on a button triggers a change of the target temperature on the thermostat. Even when clicking through it fast, every target-value the UI had at one point in time should arrive at the device. Not sending every value would mean there would be gaps. Skipping intermediate values should, if at all, only be optional and disabled by default.

To sum this up:
Even though it doesn’t work as you expect it, it works as designed. Except maybe, that multiple clicks drive the UI to get out of sync with the thermostat. Although that actually shouldn’t happen because the way HomeMatic is implemented works by displaying the value in the UI the thermostat tells HASS it is set to. May just take a few seconds to update if there where multiple requests to change the temperature.
Furthermore: even though it is possible to set the target temperature via UI, your final implementation should do this by using automations. With those you can directly set a target temperature, and that way the intermediate values won’t be transmitted to the thermostat.

Hello,

i found yesterday another post where a user has a similiar problem:

By my setup the UI comes out of sync. The actual temperature in the UI and the temperature on
the thermostate are not the same any more when i click fast.

But i aggree with you skipping intermediate values could be a configuration option when the up/down
buttons stay in the design now forever.

You miss the point I think about multiple updates - the primary issue with homegear based systems is that unless they have custom firmware they honour the 1% transmission time rule. This means you have a limited number of commands you can send over time to a device. It’s a (possibly silly) EU RF regulation that could be much better handled imho, but that’s outside the scope of this.

This means if I go from 16 to 20 degrees HASS will now send 8 messages - 1 per half a degree. If I run out of transmit time then I have to wait until there is enough credit to send the next message. This can be in the order of many seconds per message. Which means it maybe in the order of minutes that my final temperature gets set. This makes my other house occupants angry… Which means they don’t like HASS and worst case I go somewhere else.

Secondly, even without the 1% rule, updates aren’t that fast with Homegear and the fact that it skips back is also confusing to a user who doesn’t understand the backend.

Also, saying ‘ah yeah we changed the UI but it doesn’t matter because you shouldn’t use that anyway because your system should be so clever that it runs itself’ - which is what you’re saying about using automations, is like saying it’s ok to remove the steering wheel in your car because in the future we should have self driving cars.

The reality today is that many people use the UI because the complex automation, machine learning and sensing required to truly automate our systems is not here… Yet. When it is then remove the ‘steering wheel’, but for now the ‘steering wheel’ should work and the backend interactions should hidden and UI be seamless and comfortable to users.

Finally, remember that precise UI behaviour is not always best… Just think about the behaviour of your cars fuel gauge. It’s not precise (watch how long it stays ‘full’ for and how far you can drive on ‘empty’), but it’s very comfortable and it works well for the user - that’s no accident, car manufacturers could make very precise gauges but they don’t.

I know about that 1% rule, and I agree that it’s silly. :wink:
And I’m also aware of the problems that arise because of that. I don’t think the new UI for climate-components is a good solution because of exactly these problems. All I’m saying is, that within it’s own context, the new UI does exactly what it is supposed to do. The fact that it breaks usability has nothing to do with the HomeMatic implementation, which can be seen by all the other people complaining about the new UI.

You are right, that the time for removing the steering wheel hasn’t come yet. And even wit heverything automated, people should be able to control their devices. Again, I see the new UI as a usability-regression as well. If I had known about that I would have, uhm, my “veto eingelegt”… :wink:

Besides that though, HomeMatic thermostats are quite “intelligent” by themselves already. Even with Homegear you can program their auto-modes etc., so ultimately people don’t have to mess with HA automations at all to have their thermostats do their thing. Is this not the case with bluetooth-thermostats?

Finally: my wording might have been misleading. What I really wanted to say: the way it is now it’s “broken”, and using automations will solve the problem (as a workaround). I believe it should even be possible to use some input_slider-entities and tie them to the target temperature. That way there would be a way to set the temperature using the slider again.

Great! I think we are on the same page :slight_smile:

The unfortunate behaviour in combination with update rate limited devices is fixed in 0.40. The controls are now debounced, i.e. updated value is only sent to the backend after it hasn’t changed for 2 seconds: https://github.com/home-assistant/home-assistant-polymer/commit/3fb6e001a550b9cf7255d120c3766419188ad6e5

This are good news. Thank you for the information. And Thanks on all the developers
contributing to this project.