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From where did you move it over? I am curios about the Z wave scene and triple click, which device are you using?
Looks cool by the way 
This is on my list of projects! Just need to find the time.
Hoping @TheHookUp videos will help with the transition.
Home seer switches send off scene commands on double/triple tap. This is just catching that and performing an action.
I had all my automations running in appdaemon. It worked well, better than yaml but was still confusing.
Damn it! 
I really need to do this too.
It’s just one more thing I need to learn tho. 
Why?
I don’t see any need as all my HA automations are working. I’m not sure what the benefit of adding more complexity is? Just curious…
My understanding is that some things that people struggle with in standard yaml (templating, etc) are easier in Node-red and there is other functionality that doesn’t exist in yaml.
I will probably never get around to it because all of my stuff is working now too. But there are reasons why people use it instead of yaml and one day I may bump up against those limitations so having another tool in the tool box is never a bad thing.
I agree. When able I prefer to do things in Home Assistant. But sometimes it is just too daunting to create a sensor, automation and script when I can do the same thing in NR using one or two nodes. Maybe as I learn how to do more in Home Assistant I may bring some of my flows into yaml files.
I moved it all over to Node-Red because I was used to Node-Red after having used it for years. It’s nice to be able to build out automations without having to reload or restart ANYTHING, and the debugging is so freaking easy.
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Well that makes perfect sense. I don’t see why someone would migrate a perfectly working system from HA to NR though just for the hell of it…
Well building and troubleshooting automations is about a million times easier.
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I’ve just come to HA having spent several months learning Python and building my own dashboard to control all my devices at home. So, I’m still trying to get my head round a lot of this stuff.
Is Node-RED instead of HA? Or is it something to add on top?
It’s on top of HA and provides a graphical (flow based) approach to building automations using drag and drop.
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I disagree with this. I find using a code editor and the YAML to be much easier than screwing around linking node red elements to do the same thing.
I get it that to some this might be easier as yaml is “spooky” but it is equally scary for these same people to jump to a SSH shell and look after the underlying system itself.
But to declare it a million times easier is really a misrepresentation of HA’s capabilities.
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This makes sense but I guess it depends on your start point. I think I’m a bit tech savvy but this isn’t second nature to me. All the Pi projects I’ve done (apart from my smart mirror) have been headless and I also started learning Python about 6 months ago. So getting into yaml is a fairly natural step. I think I’ll stick with that rather than trying to learn something new. I also think that using any sort of GUI leaves you very exposed if things go wrong.
I think we’re on the same page; I also like the yaml and native automations. Home Automation is a complex and sensitive topic (if it doesn’t work your wife goes ballistic!) so I believe in the KISS principle. Node Red is not KISS as it’s another piece of infra you need to keep running and updated. The native yaml automations are not; as they are part of the base HA functionality.
But I do get for some newbies the YAML is a barrier to getting into automation and for those I guess node red makes sense. Ideally we eventually get something built in that is a simplistic editor like Wink or something to build simple automations.
Right now you can fake it with scripts to get nested conditions but it’s messy and complex to maintain.
Simply getting a:
trigger X
if condition Y then do this
else if condition Z then do this
else do this
would make it much easier…
I think you guys misunderstood @flamingm0e point about it being easier then yaml. The fact you are familiar with one over the other obviously makes it feel easier as you are comfortable with it that is always going to be in the eye of the beholder. I have used both and am comfortable with both the reason I feel node is easier over yaml is the fact you can whip up an automation flow very quickly without the need for a reboot. The point being made about “what if things go pair shaped” this is where node red is going to be your best friend you have tools like debug to see exactly where things are going pair shaped. Plus the ability to use an inject node to simulate any automation and confirm they work before making them live. Don’t get me wrong some automations are just easier in yaml and If that is the case I use yaml but some automations can’t be achieved without node red. Definitely makes presence detection and media based automations work without normal limitations.
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Exactly, I find that most people who question why or say yaml is easier have never really experience nodered. Nodered is way more powerful than yaml partly because it’s not tied directly to HA and you don’t have to edit text files to get basic things to work. If I want to make a complex automaton I can write a Javascript function that does exactly what I want but if I want a simple automation that turns a light on when I open and door it takes 30 seconds and drag and drop.
Personally, I started HA with yaml and found it to be way too verbose and convoluted coming in with a programming background. I then quickly moved to appdaemon where I had full control with code and that worked great for 90% of what I wanted to do but I found debugging and maintaining dozens of python modules to be quite the burden and it made me not want to go in and fix/update automatons. It was a chore to change things up…which I didn’t like.
I really wanted an automation that could not be done in HA or appdaemon so I searched for another way. I tried NR about a year ago but didn’t love it but figured I would try that again. Within about 30 minutes not only did I have it setup and working well but I also was able to build out that automation that wasn’t possible with the other systems. That’s when I realized it was time to make the switch. Sure, most of my automatons worked but by moving everything over I can now view, edit, and debug all my automatons from a single interface. In addition, debugging/testing is 100 times easier now. With injections I can fake any state/trigger from HA to make sure it’s doing what I want before deploying it. This makes testing/debugging soooo much easier since I don’t have to physically go trip a motion sensor to flip a switch to test automatons. This alone would probably make me switch but there is much more to NR.
Some other reasons I switched:
NR is full nodejs, you can write and use any node module available which makes interacting with other services very very easy. It’s also easy to write and share nodes, everything I’ve searched for so far has had a node for it already.
It’s opensource and backed by IBM. HA is opensource too but because people use NR outside of home automation NR has pretty good support and I doubt it’s going anywhere. If I have an issue I can easily go in and modify the core nodes to work the way I want, which I did for the link node already. I could do this in HA too but it’s more complicated.
It’s not directly ties to HA where the yaml and appdaemon both are. What I mean by this is my automatons will work with any hub, I’m basically just using HA as a hub to communicate with my physical devices but if a better one came out or I wanted to switch it’s pretty straight forward to convert my automatons over. Try that will yaml or appdaemon.
Debugging. I mentioned this above but it’s hard to express how much easier this is in NR. With YAML forget it, you have nothing. With appdaemon sure you can throw prints in and read the logs but it’s still not easy. With NR you can literally see the messages going through the nodes and how they are triggering it in real time. You can add debug nodes that print anything out and you can write functions inline to do what you want to manipulate the data or check it to fix common issues. When I moved my mudroom light automation over there was a bug that the light would sometimes shut off it you lingered for too long. I was able to debug and fix this issue in like 15 minutes, when it was in appdaemon I could never get it right because of the complicated logic.
Now, there are things that bug me about NR, it’s not perfect but IMHO it’s much better than the previous two solutions I tried, yaml or appdaemon so I’m sticking with it.
Anyway, everyone has their own opinions and favorites. If you’re happy with writing yaml files please continue to do so!
This is the automation that got me into NR. Tell me how to do this with yaml files or appdaemon.
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I agree, actually. I PREFER written language, and YAML is easy. I will not argue with that at all.
But everything that @jimpower and @ryanrdetzel have said are what makes NR easier for this use case. Please don’t try to dismiss me as a “noobie that doesn’t understand YAML”. The right tool for the job applies here. I can tie Node Red into anything else I want, and I don’t rely on HA to have support for it.
I don’t think I ever misrepresented HA’s capabilities and never meant as such. I never even questioned HA’s capabilities. I had all of my automations in YAML before I decided to move to Node-Red, and wound up converting everything over. In fact, I had a tough time actually translating a couple of automations over into Node-Red. They were just easier to lay out in written language, but once I realized what I needed, it turned into a cake walk.
I’m not knocking HA’s CAPABILITIES, I am merely stating that creating, testing, debugging, and verifying automations is absolutely easier in Node-Red. For simple things, sure, YAML is easy to throw a couple of lines at, and it works, but when you want to get into some complex stuff, debugging is nonexistent in YAML.
To add to this too, if you don’t want to use the provided NR nodes you don’t have to. You could write every automation in a giant javscript function if you wanted. The nodes just make it fast and less error prone while providing a visual aid as to what’s going on.
This took under 10 seconds to make, deploy it and have it working. Done. If I wanted this in yaml I’d have to get to the machine, create a new file, make sure I line everything up correctly (typos, indentation), save…hope it works? It’s not hard it’s just much much easier in NR IMHO.
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