Rank Beginner HA and Linux having problems

I am following this getting started page and was not able to reach HA without using the IP address. Once in HA I installed the SSH add-on (I skipped over the key/password step) but this statement in SSH details confused me, as did the suggestion earlier to try out ‘hassio help’ since I could not find anywhere to write that.

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Is it true that Ihave to install a key to move forward, and is that why I am having problems?

I went on and added the Configurator add-on which presents a blank page rather than the scripting that a getting started video indicated.

Quite a mess I’ve got myself in Ollie… I’m pretty sure there is something conceptually that I just don’t get but a forum search doesn’t seem to offer anything so remedial.

That’s normal for routers that don’t support bonjour/mdns

What problems?

What do expect to see?

For some reason that I can’t replicate now, (probably confusion) I went from the //Install Home Assistant page to the //Installing Hass.io page, which sent me down a rabbit hole to //Install SSH Server, and finally to a video which shows going to a configuration file that had information on it.

What do expect to see?

At that point I expected to see a populated configuration file like the video shows.

Pretty sure I’m where I should be at this point with no devices or logic - i.e., and empty configuration file.

I realize now I see that the correct next page is //Onboarding.

So one question now is… “Do I need to install SSH at all? And if I do, is it necessary to use a key or can I simply use a password?”

Another question is “What is the ‘UNK’ above my name and how can I change it?”

‘UNK’ above your name means HA does not know if your are home or not, because no device tracker is attached to the person.

You don’t need to install SSH, but it saved my butt a lot of times when HA did not come up again. I simply use a password (not so secure)

If you don’t install ssh you will at some point really be wishing you had. Also use a key not a password… it is simple to set that up and more secure.

The reason I use a password and not I key : I never found a way to import the key in my Android SSH client.

Hmm I wonder why… in iOS both apps I use support a key.

I’m guessing you’re watching outdated videos, because nearly every video out there is outdated. Read the documentation instead.

I use JuiceSSH and can import keys just fine.

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Ok,I try this one out.

OK, I’m convinced. So what happens after I add the SSH add-on? The add-on details for SSH shows…
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Where can I find the screen to type in ‘hassio help’.?

I’m sure there is something I haven’t done, but I don’t know what it its.

You need to connect to it using a tool like PuTTY

OK, I started SSH, brought up PuTTy, get the command line screen and see the cursor but cannot type input. SSH Server add-on reports…

[00:58:01] INFO: Initializing add-on for use…
[00:58:02] INFO: Setup password login
[00:58:02] INFO: Generating host keys…
ssh-keygen: generating new host keys: RSA DSA ECDSA ED25519
[00:58:09] INFO: Starting SSH daemon…
Server listening on 0.0.0.0 port 22.

Server listening on :: port 22.

So, SSH is listening but not talking. I don’t know what PuTTY is doing except putting up an unresponsive screen. Suggestions?

Did it let you login?

No. I decided to reboot and after that I lost connection to the Pi and it wouldn’t return. I decided to try to install hassbian instead. I must say, for someone who knows a little about Windows and nothing about Linux, this has been impossible.

Now I am trying Hassbian and it says that after boot and install I will be prompted for a login. But where? Opening the IP:port in a browser gives me 404 not found.

On the device…

I think the responders misunderstand just how unfamiliar I am with the Pi and linux. The only thing connected to the Pi is power and a cable to the router. I know its IP address. ‘On the device’ gives me a little clue, however, and I have concluded that I need to learn how to connect to the Pi as if it did not have the Hassbian application installed and I was starting from scratch. Hence, I have discovered that since I don’t have a USB mouse and keyboard, but just a laptop (as most people do these days), I must have SSH loaded onto the card along with hassbian (I wonder why it wasn’t simply included with the image). So, I am reformatting the card, after which I will flash it again and then try to figure out where/how to do ssh. All the while wondering why some of this remedial information wasn’t even hinted at the documentation. I guess it’s because the documentation is aimed at someone already having this knowledge.

I know how frustrating it is for someone who is experienced to answer questions from someone who hasn’t a clue, and perhaps I am not qualified to attempt this project. Thank you for your time.

I’m just posting to commiserate with you. I have an extensive IT background (two degrees and 36 years of employment in the field.) I’ve used almost every OS and programming language you’ve ever heard of. Except Unix and Python. And what the heck is YAML anyway? I’d never even have heard of it!

The HA community can feel like an exclusive club, of which you’re not a member. They have their own shorthand and assume everyone they talk to has a lifetime of experience with HA, Unix and the other various languages and formats they use. They leave out critical steps that “everybody just knows” and assume you’ve memorized all the changes which made what they documented previously obsolete.

That said, I was able to muddle through the HASS.IO install on a Raspberry Pi 3B+, and it’s been running fine for six months now. I would strongly recommend you start over, and write down each step in sufficient detail that YOU understand it. It’s amazing how forcing yourself to record what you’re doing improves focus.

Hasspbian is a dead end, I don’t think you’ll find any improvement there.

I find it odd when people phrase things like this.

Did you know Windows when you started using it? No. You learned it along the way.

Yep…there’s your problem, because the instructions assume you have a monitor and keyboard connected (you are trying to use a general Linux OS after all, and not an appliance), and you are expected to see the output on the screen. This has nothing to do with “knowing Linux”, and is just one of those “common knowledge” things. The OS running on it has no bearing on you plugging in a monitor and keyboard.

eh?

??

Every OS includes Windows and MacOS to you? Because the only other OS would be a Unix*like system (FreeBSD/Linux).

How does one spend 36 years in IT and has never heard of YAML or used Linux or Python? This is remarkable.

Thanks for the responses… I am sort of in the position of not knowing what I don’t know. For example,

Yep…there’s your problem, because the instructions assume you have a monitor and keyboard connected (you are trying to use a general Linux OS after all, and not an appliance), and you are expected to see the output on the screen. This has nothing to do with “knowing Linux”, and is just one of those “common knowledge” things. The OS running on it has no bearing on you plugging in a monitor and keyboard.

Thank you, that is my point. My life experiences do not make that ‘common knowledge’. Until now. And yes, this is not a Linux issue but a ‘how to use a Raspberry Pi’ issue - which is also not part of my previous life experiences (except for a recent seamless and thoroughly documented provisioning of Pi-Hole that encouraged me to choose HA for my home automation project so that I could have recurring night setback control of my brainless Dakin mini-split systems).

So, I am learning, somewhat painfully and reluctantly, but at least at this point starting over is relatively easy. Since I figured out how to get SSH working with (‘dead-end’) hassbian by adding the SSH blank text file to the image disk and I was able to get a working hassio previously but not SSH, my next step will be to create a hassio image again but add the SSH blank text file to the image disk.

My only experience with a Unix type OS was Unix. Working on the staff of a university in 1975, I convinced the EE department to give me an account on their Unix system that they got for free from AT&T (non-academic users paid 20K dollars). I used it for data management using text processing with lots of greps in a script that brought it to its knees. Once they discovered who was slowing their machine down, they told me to stop. Soon after that, we inherited an Altair from the Business School that had Wordstar at about the time Gates produced MSBasic and I never looked back. If I had bought one of those cute little Apple boxes like my roommate we would not be having this conversation.

Some success…
Added blank SSH text file to the root directory on the SD image disk after flashing.
Reimaged and booted hassio
Can browse to Home Assistant
Installed Samba add-on and able to see folders.
Installed SSH and was able to log on and open directories.

Lessons learned…

  • Samba was easier that I thought it would be - I struggle with Windows networking.
  • You don’t need a keyboard and mouse connected to the Pi to see the SD

It’s not clear to me that you won’t need a kb and mouse for something in the future.