Seeking Recommendation 4-channel smart wall switch

I’m looking for a recommendation for a 4-channel relay-style (not dimming) smart wall switch with local indicators of on/off status and a decora shape single gang footprint. North America, so 120v L-N-G is the wiring i use.

I was trying a MOES brand but it seems to not work with HA. so I’m going to return it but i need something else that DOES work with HA. I don’t have a zigbee relay. Do have insteon and zwave. I would prefer something that works over wifi and uses an open communication standard. Actually, communicating over rj45 ethernet would be my preference but I’m not crazy enough to expect to find that anywhere.

15 amp or even 20 amp capacity would be ideal but I’m prepared to work with 10 if need be.

What are my options, and what device would YOU recommend for this?

I’d recommend Insteon switches because once they’re set up, they work … always. They are expensive. Theoretically, they don’t require a controller (aka PLM or hub), but in practice, they do. HA has an Insteon integration that communicates through the PLM to the switches. Insteon 4 button switch, 17A switch, PLM

The fact that they’re so darn expensive is why I created the Universal Light Switch. The idea behind the ULS system is that the controller (panel) is where one would have a switch and the on/off function is somewhere else; in the same box or with the light.

The “universal” part is that different menus can be brought up to be able to control “more things than you can shake a stick at” from one wall panel. The software and hardware is identical on every panel. Panel fails? Put in a new panel, no reprograming needed elsewhere.

The switches and lights require an MQTT broker, which is the backbone of the system. While that is all that is needed, it will work with HA by setting up a “switch” in your MQTT file for every ULS activity (on/off function).

The link is to my proof-of-concept design. Since then, I designed a PCB and did some alpha testing which was quite positive. (Yes, I need to get to the documentation.)

Right now it’s DIY. It’s not as reliable as Insteon, but more so than Z-Wave or Zigbee and less complicated than Matter.

I fully appreciate the need for off-the-shelf hardware and software. Sometimes it just doesn’t meet expectations.

Good luck on your search!

4 channel as in four way? We use these (the dimmer versions, though) and they work reliably and quickly in ZHA. This version does not have dimming, and you can get Matter, Zigbee, and Z-Wave versions.

Pure On-Off

Dimmer function with actual relay for true on-off

All the types

4 channel as in it conains 4 independant relays and 4 buttons and can independantly energize or de-energize 4 120v outputs for 4 independant lights or fans

You never know..
I would think same for 4x 20A light switch at single gang size.

I have a dozen plus Insteon devices currently, and a plm. the older one that doesn’t use any cloud stuff, just has a telnet port and always works. Problem is I have never seen an Insteon device that can physically switch more then one output circuit. I would need four separate micro on/offs and i feel like they’re a bit chincy.

not to mention 4x75 bucks… Insteon’s combination of simple RF and powerline is exquisitely reliable in theory. But I have an insteon module lock up about once a month somewhere in the house and have to pull out its “on shit” tab at the bottom and pop it back in to reboot it.

If my spouse knew I spent $75 on a smart light switch to replace one that cost a dollar and the one i installed has to be rebooted on the regular, he would BOIL ME ALIVE.

I also thought Insteon was completely defunct relic of the past and remembered only by the greyest of historians. But it looks like their domain is back online now and with a new logo. I’m a little bothered that insteon is single manufacturer, non-open protocol as well. doesn’t lend itself to sustainability.

I bought one of these: MOES Matter-WiFi Smart 4 Gang Switch, Neutral Required | Single Pole Light Switch, Compatible with Alexa Google Assistant, Remote Control: Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement from Moes on the premise that it supported an open cross-vendor protocol, but it seems not to either be a brick or HA doesn’t support matter or something else. i have no other Matter devices to test with.

You need a Thread/Matter controller (antenna) to get it working in HA. Read here Matter - Home Assistant

I don’t think you’ll be able to get 5 runs of romex and four 10A relays into a single gang box, even if your touchpad is wafer thin. The supply run would have to be 8AWG (10 mm²)!

8AWG is overkill, for sure, but give some thought to how this is going to be assembled, and disassembled when trouble shooting is necessary. If the property is sold, will it meet code? Who’s going to maintain it. Trust me on this: if what your doing isn’t easy to fix by somebody other than you, that somebody is going to hate your for the rest of their life.

You’re going to have to think outside the box. (pun intended :wink:

I never said I’d use a run of romex for each of the outbound circuits.

Why do you say “The supply run would have to be 8AWG (10 mm²)!”

For comparison, I have 4 receptacle boxes in my living room each with dual nema 5-15 receptacles. I don’t have to have 2AWG wire and a 120A breaker for that room.

I’m not Happy that the MOES switch uses 10A relays internally. But I found a 10A breaker and ran a circuit just for this.

Through the wall of the basement, I drilled/chiseled a hole to run two ground-contact-rated sealtiight conduits. They go out into the soil (which I excavated a bit for the project) and up through a mulchbed to two outdoor outlets with UL-listed in-use-rated covers. Before i put the dirt back, I packed the hole with hydraulic cement and let that cure. Then I tarred over it on the outside, very thoroughly.

Through each conduit, i pulled 4x THHN 14awg. Two hots and a shared neutral. Gawd home depot thinks its made out of gold not copper these days!

So in the basement there’s a small penetration of the contrete where two conduits end. Over that I’m going to place a metalic 3-gang junction box with two GFCI outlets and this one MOES smart switch.

The 14-2 NM-B runs from a 10A breaker in a breaker panel, through the ceiling/perimeter of the basement, then when it gets to where this junction box it is, I’ll send it down the wall through EMT for physical protection before it gets to the metal jbox.

a 3-gang jbox has plenty enough fill available for 1x nmb and 8x thhn. The NM-B will go to the line lugs of the first GFCI and from that to the line lugs of the second. Thefirst GFCI’s load lugs will feed the MOES and the conduits. The second GFCI is for use in the basement. I do expect whatever is plugged into this outdoors, for years on end, to eventually fault out, and I don’t want that to disrupt my other stuff.

It would be slightly more operationaly resilient to use seperate gfcis for each of the four outputs, but i would feel like a real asshole ordering a 6-gang receptable box. And, becuse the smart switch has individual buttons and leds, if there was a fault you could turn off all loads, reset the gfci, and turn them on one by one until it trips and bingo bango!

I’m plugging in security lights and seasonal holiday lights to these outlets. But I could also very well see myself or someone else using the outlets for a hedge trimmer or power tools. So the smart switch can’t be a dimmer. A heavy duty tool might trip the 10A breaker, but that should prevent it damaging the smart switch.

I should probably put a 10A label on the receps along with the GFCI sticker. But finding a place for it that will be readily visible and also not weather away would be tricky. They should see the “10” on the handle pretty easy when they’re resetting it because the outlet stopped working.

I’ve got 20A outlets right around the corner in the garage and a 15A cord reel in the garage ceiling that SHOULD be used for tools.

These outlets are really intended for lighting, or maybe a security cam. I left a pull string and a cat5 in those conduits too (SHHH don’t tell the codes guy) I might have also left some 1/4" poly along side it for a future solicitor irrigation zone… drilling through concrete is enough of a pain i don’t ever want to feel like I forgot something later.

My earliest idea for this project would have seen four nema 5-15 plugs dangling from grommets in the receptacle box, and bring your own brand of smart outlet controllers to plug them in, or when i move just plug them in direct. That would have looked a bit… busy… and it wouldn’t have had on/off indicators indoors, like the smart switch has. And people get antsy when they see a male connector visible as part of a fixed structure. It was also proving difficult to find pre-moulded 12awg male plugs with pass-through heads at a decent price.pass-through heads would have been important when you want to use just one smart switch but control things on both sides of the mulch bed

I went on the supposition that if you’re putting in 20A outlets that you’re expecting near 20A. Having 2x 20A outlets in one box would mean you’re expecting at least 30A. Thus the 8AWG

ah. I thought 30 was 10awg, if we’re talking copper and North America. 8’s aren’t so common.

Ideally yes, I would love to be able to plug a 20A device into a single outlet outside like I would expect to be able to do anywhere else at home. If I could find a multi-relay single gang smart switch that could switch 20A loads I’d be using that. Even if the max input, the breaker and copper itself is still just 20A

10A feels weird. But it’s coming. in the next code cycle you’re likely to see 16AWG wire for 10A circuits. LED lighting needing less power and copper costing more are the driving factors. It’s why you can already buy 10A breakers mail order. They’re just not on shelves often.