I want to monitor my whole home power usage, and get that in to HA. These pics are of my main panel, it is roughly 9 years old. I am in the US fyi.
I added the same labels the contractor wrote on the outside of the panel, Mains, Sub-Panel etc…
I would like to add a power monitor to monitor the whole house usage, Zigbee or wifi would work.
What type of panel/service do I have?
Can you recommend a power monitor for this?
If I’m reading it correctly I have a “1 phase 3-wire”? Does the “derived from 3-phase 4-wire” matter?
Since there is actually 4 “mains” wires do I need more than the standard 2 CT Clamps?
The meter is already a smart meter installed by the City. I’m hoping to not use the Smart Meter and a source, as I frankly dont trust it. Everyone around here is having billing overage issues with the new meters. I want to use my own monitoring as a double check on the Smart Meter.
“If you are asking these very basic questions, I would recommend calling in a professional such as an electrician to advise you.”
Appreciate the concern, I’m quite capable of handling and being safe with electricity… Not an issue…
Which if you trace the diagram, and any electrician will do to save space and cost, is actually probably only one wire anyway.
I’m suspecting the diagram is a generic one supplied with the cabinet, glued to the inside of the door as a guide, and there will be others in a paper enclosure that has been discarded when it was installed.
Yep, get a professional on the job.
I note it actually says “For installation by a Qualified Person in accordance with all local electrical codes and/or the National Electrical Code”
Sighs.
Yes, a single phase comprising a red (active) and black (neutral) derived from a three phase circuit coming from the street via a meter into the SIEMENS enclosure. Both the double reds and double blacks are in parallel in the diagram (there are options), both switched by the circuit breaker at the bottom of the diagram (marked ‘device disconnect’), and going to the bus bars where the twenty individual circuits are tapped from.
Maybe there is another board we have not been told much about, where the white sleeved black wire ends up?
Question not answered: are the other phases used for anything else? If so, a 3EM three phase monitor will match the utlitity supplier meter. If only one phase is used, a single phase monitor will suffice. A photo of the installed meter would have probably quickly clarified that issue.
This is not where you train wannabe electricians. Get a professional, as the cost difference between a 3EM and a single phase unit may be similar to the cost of advice and save your life and house and attached devices if you get it wrong.
Another question: Where will you fit your 3EM, and/or CT transformer? Doesn’t seem to be much DIN busbar space around to click it in. Will it work well inside a Faraday cage?
Recommended would be 2 CTs (as noted, while your have 4 wires, each of the two pair are in parallel to be able to carry the specified current).
Your best bet to lower your energy cost is to determine your high usage devices and use them less. Investigate your parasitic usage: wall warts, TV power supplies, coffee maker, dishwasher, etc. All them are using just a little energy but can add up! Like a kW! That’s 730kWh/mo! Your whole home energy monitor will be able to indicate this.
Of course solar+storage is a good way to reduce you energy expenses, though the up front costs make a tough barrier. It could lead to off-grid, but that takes real dedication and a significant lifestyle change.
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If your energy monitor is not NIST Traceable you are unlikely to win an argument with the energy provider. In California, under certain situations, you can request to have your meter calibrated. You might be charged for the service. That is the closest one can get to satisfaction without spending millions on a court case. (Yes, they will defend themselves, tooth and nail.)
The utilities in California claim and are required by law to be +/- 0.5% (consider that SDG&E 2024 profit was $891million, and 0.4% of that is $3.4million, it would be a good assumption that SDG&E meters read 0.4% too much.) Immoral and unethical, yes, but not illegal.
The real irony is that the CA utilities have changed the rates again so that if you consume less, you pay more per kWh!
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Yes, that missing photo of the meter could have clarified the manufacturer and what international and local standards they comply with, and cleared up how many phases are being metered.
I’ve observed a trend where some energy suppliers are finding customers with huge solar systems are now quite comfortable financially with zero or negative bills, and the solar feed in tariffs have dropped, to either a paltry sum, zero, or in some cases negative where you pay to generate electricity and feed it into the grid in the middle of a sunny day.
Sneakily, where the consumption and supply charges are split, they also keep the consumption charges the same to pacify the hordes and politicians complaining about the cost of living and increase the supply charge more and more so those with solar systems are still a profitable revenue stream. This is where storage batteries and smart automation shine.
What’s 0.4% of your bill? I know, it is the principle, but usually the meter manufacturers are very, very close, and your third party monitoring equipment you intend to install is similarly rated accuracy.
I suppose the utilities are in the business of bilking (oops I mistyped billing but had to let it slip as it was so appropriate) as much as they possibly can. PG&E in your neck of the woods, if I remember right, had cashflow problems due to huge wildfire insurance payouts in recent years, and has started to implement intense monitoring and control of its’ network to reduce the risks (something I am in the position to have a bit of insider knowledge about due to a past career) hence ever increasing network costs as they upgrade their ‘wires and poles’ and switching gear to cope with ever changing climate and environment conditions.
The electricity companies do not manufacture the meters. They rely on them to be correctly calibrated when supplied. If there is any doubt whatsoever of their accuracy they will change them, and sometime if found to be accurate, charge you for their efforts.
There are regulators and laws to ensure meters are accurate. Usually where there are doubts, another cause such as phantom/zombie power suckers are identified, and the meter gets a clean bill of health.
What mudhauler (the original poster) will find, once whole of house monitoring is running well (he’ll get there with the help of a sparky and our banter), burning curiosity as to what each individual device is using how much will creep in, and he will wish his SIEMENS box was much wider so he could fit the CTs to monitor each circuit separately, rather than have power monitors scattered across the whole premises with all the associated wiring and networking issues to contend with.
This is where a honest experienced professional, looking at the bigger picture, may be able to offer advice on what may be most cost effective in the longer-term and what constraints exist with the current equipment.
No one here can see or check what your home wiring is. The best you will get is guesses, and you have no idea if the person ‘helping’ has any idea or not.
Keep in mind if you know what you are doing, we have no problem helping. But when you clearly do not know much about the wiring you are looking at then PLEASE get help from someone that does.
Disclaimer
DANGER OF ELECTROCUTION
If your device connects to mains electricity (AC power) there is danger of electrocution if not installed properly. If you don’t know how to install it, please call an electrician.
Beware: certain countries prohibit installation without a licensed electrician present
Remember: SAFETY FIRST. It is not worth the risk to yourself, your family and your home if you don’t know exactly what you are doing. Never tinker or try to flash a device using the serial programming interface while it is connected to MAINS ELECTRICITY (AC power).
You mean the two heavy black wires at the top of the first photo, coming out of the 100A breakers with one sleeved in red a fair way down? Hope it is suitably sleeved on the other end. Maybe a red wire would have been an alternative option?
Ethernet, plugged into a device in close proximity to live mains wiring that may conduct very high voltages in times of electrical storms should possibly be optically isolated from the other end.
This risk of direct arcing as lightning finds the shortest path to ground, or induced currents from wires running in parallel does not always result in charring, but often gradual breakdown of the ICs, with increased unreliability before premature failure. I’ve seen it many times in the days of dialup, where onboard modems or ethernet ports on motherboard were completely charred as the rest of the system merrily chugged along. The insurance claimant says 'it was only a small zap I got for a few seconds, and can you just get me a plug-in card to give me back the functionality?" and weeks or months down the track, the rest of the smoke escapes, and now you have a warranty claim the insurance company frowns on as the equipment kept working past the incident.
Even using shielded cable, Cat 6, 7, 8 and whatever they are up to, will only reduce the risk somewhat. Ethernet still relies on the low level voltages to transfer the data via the wiring. You do NOT want spikes, surges, or even strong 60Hz hum with earth loops in the other end.
Check the detailed spec sheets of any third party equipment you put in there. Some manufacturers, borne of warranty claims and development experience, will include such isolators. A lot, especially cheap Chinese first generation ones won’t.
RS485 adapters often have power spike protection, hence they are commonly found in industrial settings connecting heavy usage mains equipment. Don’t buy the cheapest one on eBay - check they have protection varistors and optoisolators.
Also consider optical connection as an option, or air gapped wireless connection such as WiFi, ZigBee etc, with an external antenna to bypass the Faraday shielding. Make sure the antenna is electrically isolated too, as the circuit it connects to inside may be at mains potential.
We want you to still be here asking questions about yaml and configs, not burnt to a crisp!
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The 0.4% is the amount the utility could jimmy the meters and still be within legal limits. I am not certain, but I believe the calibration constants in the meter can be adjusted remotely.
I know that SDG&E (San Diego) has yet to make final payment of about 1/2 billion dollars for its negligence in two fires of two decades ago. If a complaint to the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) is made, the commissioners have no time limit within which they must respond to the complaint. Also, up until just recently, the CPUC could not be sued. A suit requires a timely response.
The CPUC is suppose to be the public watchdog. The commissioners are appointed by the Governor who is given a list of qualified candidates. The list is developed by the utilities.
I am on a path to go off-grid. I’m probably not the only one. I view this act as anti-social because if we all pull together, each of us installing solar+storage, we could have a system of very inexpensive energy and one that would almost be impervious to power outages.
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I apologize for the rant. This is one of my hot buttons.
Sorry for the delayed response… I am not getting notifications of replies…
The meter is a “Openway by iTron” smart meter.
FYI, I have not done anything to the panel, you are seeing it as installed by the builder of the home.
I am not above hiring an electrician to do this… problem is finding one that is knowledgeable about home automation / monitoring i guess. I have a bunch of electrical work I want to get done in the near future, new sockets, 240 socket, etc that I will be hiring an electrician for. So I can make sure I find one knowledgeable about this topic and do this at the same time.
Looking at the products like the Shelly or Emporia make it seem simple to install… But as you all have made clear its a bit more involved…
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I have the same complaints… The cost of electricity in SoCal is getting astronomical… Our monthly bill is routinely $400-$600 for our single family home with 3 people. I already am trying to reduce usage as much as possible. All LED bulbs, presense sensors, low power computer equipment, Limiting the use of the A/C system, etc… I know what are the major power usage devices in the home, the biggest being the A/C system. They just keep raising the rates, so no matter what you do to save usage the cost keeps going up… And dont get me started on Gov Newsom…
While I believe that your meter is regulated to give consumption within strict tolerances, it’s never bad idea to have something to keep on eye. And optimize consumption.
If you decide to place meter against the providers one, don’t get fooled from some single phase approach that estimates your consumption with tolerances 5x.
Inspect your wiring to find best possible spot for device, it could be even next to your meter.
I have observed, not just in California, but also elsewhere, you get the politicians you deserve. Pay them enough to attract the right calibre and you get ones driven by career choice and professionalism rather than blind ego and greed. Turn out and vote for your candidate also helps, especially if you have a motivated one.
Taking the plunge and going solo with solar, wind and batteries, cutting the strings to the power company has crossed many minds, but what happens in time of poor weather and overcast skies? Promises in the 1950’s of your own personal nuclear power station offering unlimited energy from the atom have not eventuated yet. Yes, we all love our AC, and teenagers often live in a controlled environment set to ‘beach’ while the rest of us shiver, or roast. I have observed that -monitoring- can often change usage habits for a short period, and you have to be a bit assertive and -control- (and put the blame on the computer, WAF be damned) Get the household involved in setting everything up and they will understand why. Put not just consumption, but dollar values on your dashboards and graphs as well, as money doesn’t talk - it shouts.
iTron is a multinational company headquartered in the US that build meters widely deployed across the globe, customised to each utility requirements with data transmission options etc. Your smart meter may be accessible via the optical port at the front to take direct data readings and insert them into HomeAssistant. Alternatively most meters have a flashing LED and a simple pulse counter works well with HomeAssistant without having to disturb the wiring.
Accuracy and tampering with calibration settings should be fairly low on the things you should be concerned about - the company making the meters having a global reputation to uphold, and international standards to comply with. Investigate those options (before you start pulling apart your electrical infrastructure) to collect enough data to guide your path. You may find that individual circuit monitoring may, or may not be necessary based on your experience with collecting a few months of consumption data based on time rather than device, as patterns emerge and the culprits isolated that you can focus on to reduce your cost of living, which is what your ultimate goal is, isn’t it?
Don’t get lost looking to measure a tolerance of a few watts and tenths of a percent to verify your meter is accurate, and miss the power hog chewing away at your wallet.
My experience with electricians in California is mixed. Once you’ve educated yourself a bit more, plan on interviewing a few. Find one with whom you can develop a rapport as many are clueless about home automation. If you educate yourself well on home automation, you can be that part. You should do this because you’re going to be the one doing the maintenance … you don’t want to be paying somebody a hundred bucks to reset a device.
A very DIY option and needs calibration that will match or exceed the utility supplied iTron meter for accurate comparison, but certainly will get the job done with maybe a larger cabinet to fit the CT transformers and voltage wall warts and added wiring. Expandability to individually monitor up to 42 circuits is there (add up your cost per circuit however and see if it is worth it).
Ethernet add-on piggyback board will take care of the Faraday cage issue, or maybe an opto-isolated RS485/ModBus option for long cable runs and power surge protection.
By the time you master all this, you have the technical knowledge to manufacture your own meters in competition with iTron to international standards of calibration, which is part of your original goals, isn’t it? As Reagan said “Trust, but verify”!
You could also hire an independent scientific measuring consultant with measuring equipment accurate enough to verify your meter is within tolerance. Short term, once off, just to confirm or deny your suspicions. This may end up being the cheapest option overall, and give you bullet-proof evidence if you are being bilked by the utility company. The utility companies commonly have this sort of equipment on hand, so if you know anybody that works for them, maybe they can borrow it for the weekend, just for ‘evaluation’ purposes.
Training your electrician to become competent in home automation is another challenge. Them learning on your dime by the hour will soon add up. Finding one already versed in the arts will most likely be via word of mouth. Studying to get your own electrical ticket or electrical engineering qualifications is also an option, but may cut into quality family time.
Just buying a ready-made calibrated solution such as the 3EM starts to become attractive, as long as it is the appropriate one for your wiring setup - hence my original suggestion to just ask a professional, now that you have some understanding of some of the issues involved.
DANGER OF ELECTROCUTION