Why I’m Skipping the SLZB-MR Series: A Physics Intervention

tl;dr section

  • The radios are too close to each other.
  • When you’ve got a foghorn on one ear, you won’t hear the piano across the room.
  • The cliff-effect: it works fine with a dozen devices. at 30, things get messy. at 100?

The Philosophy: Do One Thing Well

Part of it is probably philosophy… specifically what is commonly described as the UNIX philosophy…
Do one thing and do it well. Prefer simplicity.
But that isn’t a very compelling argument… most who hold this opinion came about it the hard way.

My Credentials (or lack thereof)

here’s my disclaimers first.

  • I’m a sysadmin & software engineer by trade [specifically what Google labeled as Site Reliability Engineering back around 2010].
  • I’m not an RF engineer, not a HAM, nor an EE [Electrical Engineer].
  • I haven’t bought one, because the math doesn’t look good.
  • I used Gemini to do some of the research, but didn’t copy/paste this post. It’s my words, refined by way of arguing with a clanker [consider it a more literate rubber ducky].

The Hardware

The basics: the SLZB-MR series is basically an ESP32, an Ethernet PHY [on the SLZB-06, probably a LAN8720], and multiple 802.15.4-capable radio SOCs [some combination of the TI CC2652/2674 series or the SiLabs EFR32 series], a PCB [natch], a few antenna connectors, and a bunch of much more minor components that mostly aren’t relevant to this discussion. I may introduce a few later though.

Zigbee, at least 3.0, uses the 2400MHz band. The wavelength at 2400MHz is roughly 12.5cm or 5 inches. This’ll be important later, but the only important part is the number.

There’s a teardown of the SLZB-MR1 here: SMLight SLZB-MR1 Multi-Coordinator Review - SmartHomeScene and there’s a photo of the PCB here.
A slightly more zoomed in photo.
These photos ground the discussion in an articulable reality. On the left side are two sections outlined in white, comprising the two Zigbee/Thread chips and some supporting components… they clearly are within an inch of each other, and if you remember that 12.5cm figure from earlier, you can see that they’re well within that.

The Physics

Why this matters: everybody remembers the inverse-square law from high-school science… but within one wavelength, the inverse-square law doesn’t apply to signal attenuation. Instead, the transmitters/antennae magnetically couple.
As such, when one radio is transmitting, the other radio is deafened… it can’t hear anything else. If you wish, consider someone yelling in one ear while somebody else across the room is whispering. You probably can’t clearly hear either of them.
Now, the SMLIGHT engineers aren’t dummies, they took some reasonable efforts to prevent damage, by way of a switch [MUX1574] that, when one radio is transmitting, the other is disconnected from its antenna.
But this just makes it deaf again…

So, when that radio is deaf but a far station is sending a message, clearly it won’t hear it. This is ok… to a point. Because it will be retransmitted by whichever router was doing the last-hop relay [this is worse if it’s a battery-powered device connecting directly to the coordinator]. So the message doesn’t get lost, just delayed. But it does use more battery power in some cases.

In the lightly-loaded case, you won’t notice other than 10s of msec delay, maybe 100 [barely noticeable to humans]. But as the number of devices in your Thread or Zigbee network goes up and the contention/duty-cycle goes up, the more likely messages will be lost entirely or at least delayed enough to be annoying.
The more retransmits there are, the contention factor goes up, the more noise there is, the less real messages will be received on time.
What’s worse… this will sneak up on you. It’ll go from barely noticeable to complete breakdown.

The “It Works for Me” trap

Of course, those who say “It Works For Me” may never have enough traffic to matter. But Richard P Feynman pops his head up about now… “For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled”.

The Engineering Reality

For those who read this far and think I’m out of my mind… after all, the people who designed this have to be smarter than the author of this post…
It’s far more complicated than that. There’s a concept in engineering: anybody can build a bridge. Many people can build a bridge that won’t collapse under load. But an engineer can figure out the cheapest way to build a bridge that [barely] won’t collapse under load.
And yes, those folks have put in a lot of effort. They also wrote papers on the challenges and solutions.
e.g. this from Silicon Labs [they designed the EFR32 chips].
They have the following suggestions, albeit they’re largely about WiFi vs Zigbee:

  • Keep the channels as far away as possible.
    • This helps, but doesn’t eliminate the physics issues, it just reduces the worst of the impacts.
  • Keep the antennas separated
    • this better applies to a tablet which you can put one antenna on one edge and the other antenna on the other edge. Not when your entire device is about 6inches/15cm long.
  • Have the radios aware of each other, have them ask permission from their neighbors via PTA [Packet Traffic Arbitration].
    • this helps with letting your neighbor plug their ears first… but doesn’t help when it’s about hearing a zigbee sensor 20 feet away that won’t check for a different channel’s messages before sending its message.
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They’re still making coaxial cable and RP-SMA connectors. Fit your own antenna extension cables.

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No.
Three [short] reasons

  • The switch/mux chip. The second radio is going to be deaf regardless. The point of this chip is not to improve the situation, it’s to prevent receiver burnout.
  • an antenna extension misses the point… the traces on the board already act as antennae and will couple as well, the SMA connectors and the solder-points on the board will couple too [they’re big hunks of copper]. The “separate the radios/antennae” solution requires an entirely different physical design than what SMLIGHT chose.
  • extension cables cost “insertion loss”. that is, the cables [and each connector pair] will introduce attenuation. True, this would be potentially be worthwhile if you gain 20dBm of isolation… except that with this particular hardware design, you won’t.

Ah, I see you have rejected reality and substituted your own. Good luck with that.

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I’m coming at this from the perspective of Reliability Engineering [vs edgecases, which tend towards inevitable over a long enough timeline and a large enough scale], not “can it possibly work as well as the marketing suggests.”
Which reality you or I choose isn’t going to change Nature’s opinion or Feynman [if he were alive and interested]. My argument is grounded in math/physics.

Meanwhile, we, as a community and as individuals, have a choice. We can accept “good enough for a light load” or we can decide that adding 1.5 meters of distance between our coordinators is just a decision of putting one coordinator on one side of a stairwell and the other on the other side.

In engineering, TANSTAAFL always applies. You can’t have the convenience of a kitchen-sink design without paying for the compromises made in the design to fit it all into one box.

Chances are that will be the case for most people.

It remains to be seen, based on practical experience, what are the actual boundaries of the device’s “design envelope”.

yes, very much so. but will the others recognise the symptoms for what they really are, when the problems come-a-knockin’?

I’ve already dealt with excess channel utilization issues, albeit for different reasons, and I’d wish those troubles on no man, not least because it always, eventually, comes down to blaming the user.

  • Did you remember to use a USB extension cable on your coordinator [I’m using an Ethernet coordinator].
  • maybe you have it too close to your WiFi AP [my AP is 5ish meters away].
  • well, if it hurts, then don’t do that [buying Tuya devices].

The user then gets frustrated, and it’s hard to be sure that they ever got good advice, buried in a pile of “Well, IWFM, so skill-issue”.

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You missed the classic :point_down:

  • You have to little devices. You need MORE ZigBee repeaters/line powered devices (but not bulbs!) :bulb:

Hence we skipped Z-Wave, Zigbee, Thread,
{your hype tech here} and just make use of wifi and ethernet which is deployed anyways already. A solid, reliable and proofen technique and thanks to hardware running esphome YOU can actually own your hardware. Something which might be soon a blast from the past :see_no_evil:

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:laughing:

I think you may have inverted my assertion. I want one one device per function. i.e. I’m no fan of kitchen-sink solutions.

The question of reducing the number of solutions/infrastructure-components is an entirely different question. There are certainly upsides thereto, but a) it’s a learning process, what is possible b) it can be worth the cost [or the cheapness] to go with Zigbee [with ZHA or Z2M] even when ESPHome solutions exist.