I agree with everything you said.
I started seeing that bad advice pop up after that change was made and tried to fight it every time I saw it.
I even went as far as to put in a change to the documentation to clarify the situation. It was accepted and implemented but I went back and looked recently and my changes were removed and replaced again with different ones. I personally don’t think the docs are as specific as they need to be given all of the persistent confusion on the topic.
Looks like there’s something going on.
https://github.com/home-assistant/home-assistant/issues/24310
Not just different but completely false:
When you create a new automation, it will be disabled (and therefore won’t trigger) unless you explicitly add
initial_state: trueto it or turn it on manually via UI/another automation/developer tools.
That statement is demonstrably false. I use VS Code and have created dozens of new automations that are all enabled by default; I never use initial_state: true.
The only possible way it’s true is if the built-in Automation Editor works like that. I never use it so I can’t confirm.
I appended a comment to the PR recommending the documentation revisions it made should be reversed.
I read the GitHub comments and I’m surprised that anyone there is surprised about this behavior. Defaulting to off has been known since the revised restore feature was introduced (I believe it was in version 0.84).
If the restore feature is unable to execute during startup then automations default to off. When they introduced the revised restore feature (which changed from saving the automation’s state in the recorder’s database to a separate JSON store) they even explained that after performing the software upgrade, all automations would be off and that this could happen again if the startup process is botched.
I pointed out that mistake on the documentation discord ages ago and asked if I should submit a PR to fix it. ‘Sound of crickets’ ensused. It was completely ignored.
It would appear the author of the PR has dug their heels in and refused to budge. Moreover, they’ve made this preposterous observation:
You are referring to your personal experience. That’s great, but not enough to prove the fact I’m afraid.
Further more, they took umbrage to my rhetorical question about how did this completely incorrect PR ever get through the vetting process.
And using sentences like “How did such an utterly invalid statement every pass the vetting process?” is a bit offensive of be honest.
No, offensive would be to say “This is total bull$hit.” It’s completely valid to question a vetting process that allowed the misinformation blatantly false information to pass.
It’s quite clear the author is more concerned about appearances than correcting falsehoods that are misleading the user community. I’ll be creating a PR to correct the documentation.
Not that you needed my validation to tell you what you already know but as another point of data…
I just created a new automation using Notepad++ and upon reloading my automations the automation has defaulted to ‘on’ without specifying the “initial_state:” option.
- alias: New Test
#initial_state: 'on'
trigger:
- platform: state
entity_id:
- switch.camping_room_light
- switch.yard_sale_room_light
to: 'on'
for:
minutes: 2
action:
- service: homeassistant.turn_off
data_template:
entity_id: "{{ trigger.entity_id }}"
So that is another point of verification that the “default” state for an automation is “on”.
I know it used to be that way (default = on) before the change in the recording method and I thought that the default had been changed to “off” after that based on a few threads that I was involved in on the subject. Either I was wrongly convinced of that by those threads (likely…) or it has been changed back to “on” at some point since then.
This is such a ridiculously basic functionality to have so much confusion promulgated over.
This.
Worst of all, we invite novices to read the documentation … only to discover it contains whoppers like that one.
Ok, I’ve learnt something here…
And to show that I am not being difficult on the basis of this I fully intend to remove comment out* all my initial_state: off
But,
A while ago, possibly as much as a year, I do remember there being some issue (misunderstanding?) over this and some inconsistency with the way HA (appeared) to work. At the time some automations seemed to be initially on or off at random after restart. I used to have an automation that ran on HA start to set all my automations to on in order to stop this. And just because I think he might be interested, because for some reason I remember him being involved in at least one thread on this, I am tagging @anon43302295.
But thanks for the clarification on how things work (now?).
*You can’t be too careful 
I use initial_state because I expect all my automations to be on when homeassistant starts, and it covers the potential that someone has accidentally switched one/some off.
In fact, I would feel like I had failed if I had to remember the state of the automations, as it would mean that I am switching automations on and off for different circumstances, and that’s rubbish. All automations should be on always, and if you don’t want them to fire in certain circumstances you should use conditions. Turning automations on and off, then remembering the state, then hoping that the state shouldn’t have changed whilst the system was off is poor skills IMO.
PS - I didn’t read the thread before I replied to @klogg, so I don’t know whether what I’m saying is relevant to the discussion really, but a quick browse up and AFAIK initial_state behaviour has always been ‘on’ = automation on at start, ‘off’ = automation off at start, ommited from config = remember the previous state. It’s just that the latter used to balls up a lot.
That’s not always true. I use some automations on certain occasions. For instance my automation to speak the daily weather forecast and daily news triggers with motion at the front door. And I want to hear that message only once. So when it triggers, it turns itself off. And turns it back on at 4 am next morning. In the weekends another message automation is triggered. Some automations also need to override others. For instance someone has entered home is overriden if that someone is me. The system takes its time to understand it is me who entered the house so the other automations is temporarly disabled to not be triggered by the door etc. I am sure there are other ways to get the sam functionality but it is working fine for me.
Before this thread veers too far off course, the initial_state option definitely has a useful purpose except it has been overly recommended as a remedy for the “my automations are off” affliction. This folk remedy comes with no warnings about its side-effects:
last_triggered value upon startup. Maybe you don’t care about this attribute now but you will if you ever need a reliable record of the last time the automation was executed.The documentation does everyone a disservice by making the false claim that all new automations are disabled by default and you have to use initial_state: true. That’s bull$hit.
If you don’t trust the restore feature and want to ensure your automations are always turned on at startup, yes, you can add initial_state: true to all of them with the understanding you will be giving up the two things mentioned above.
Alternately, if you don’t trust the restore feature but also don’t want your automations to have their last_triggered attribute erased on startup, use a ‘startup automation’ like this:
- alias: 'Start All Automations'
initial_state: true
trigger:
- platform: homeassistant
event: start
action:
- service: automation.turn_on
entity_id: all
Remove initial_state: true from all other automations except the one above. Now your automations will be always be turned on at startup but won’t lose their last_triggered value.
The following draft documentation is no longer needed. It is left here for no other reason than to prevent breaking the thread’s continuity.
If nothing else, it served to start a discussion that resulted in a significant bug fix in version 0.94.1 and another fix (breaking change) that will come in version 0.95. In addition, documentation errors concerning the initial_state option have been corrected by frenck.
Here’s my first draft of the new documentation for Automation Initial State. I invite the community to review it before I submit it as a PR.
During startup, Home Assistant attempts to restore an automation’s last recorded state (on or off). This restoration feature works like this:
on it will be restored to on.off it will be restored to off.You can optionally override the restoration feature by adding the initial_state option to an automation.
The option can be set to one of two states:
true or 'on' to always set the automation to on at startup.false or 'off' to always set the automation to off at startup.Examples:
initial_state: 'on' will set the automation to on at startup.initial_state: false will set the automation to off at startup.Be advised that this option currently has two drawbacks:
last_triggered attribute is reset (set to None). Therefore it loses its previous datetime value.There is a way to mitigate the first drawback. Create the following automation:
- alias: 'Start All Automations'
initial_state: true
trigger:
- platform: homeassistant
event: start
action:
- service: automation.turn_on
entity_id: all
This will be the only automation that requires initial_state: true. Exclude the option from all your other automations.
Now when Home Assistant starts, it will trigger automation.start_all_automations and set all automations to on no matter what the state was prior to start-up. Each automation’s last_triggered attribute will not be reset and its previous value (if any) will be preserved.
EDIT
Added suggested modifications.
You got my seal.
Me too but I wonder if you need to add another advisory that by using that automation you lose the ability to have individual automations set to off at startup.
I know it seems obvious but it is kind of the the corollary to
True. That’s drawback #2.
As stated in the draft documentation, the suggested automation only mitigates drawback #1.
The automation forces all automations to on, just like adding initial_state: true to all automations, except it doesn’t cause the last_triggered attribute to be reset (drawback #1).
Would it be clearer if I reduced the second drawback to this:
You lose the ability to temporarily turn off an automation for a period longer than the next restart. At startup, the automation is always set to
onregardless of its previous state.
I was thinking more of the drawback of using the automation being that you lose the ability of using initial_state: false for those automations you want to default to off at start up.
For example I have a couple of automations I turn on for testing purposes so I have initial_state: false but that means I could not use the automation to turn on all my automations at start up so I’d have to either trust the HA restore of list every one individually.
I really like that. Great option.
An interesting philosophy but not one I subscribe to. e.g. seeing that my climate control automations have been disabled when I am away for an extended period is far more reassuring than leaving them on and relying on conditions. Using enable/disable allows for quick and easy feedback.
Also it allows for easy experimentation. Just last week I was trialling the use of my downstairs heat pump’s ability to heat the whole house. This heating source is automated but is disabled unless that area of the house is in use. Using your proposed system would have required altering a lot of conditions and reloading automations. Using my system all I had to do was toggle off the upstairs automations and enable the downstairs ones. It turned out that the heat pump was not up to the task so returning to the original setup was likewise just as easy.
I have an input_boolean called home and away and as a condition in my automations, it checks if that is on or off and then does the action depending on that. Using an automation on/off is a poorer way of doing this and can have other consequences…
So Home means all my automations I want on when I am home will activate…
Similarly:
If I’m away they won’t run. Overtime means my wife is doing overtime and it adjusts the time some of my automations are activated via conditions as well and Holiday mode similarly adjusts times (so my coffee maker does not turn off during the day for example)
I find this approach superior to turning an automation on or off.
I also used to find that I have a lighting automation and if I’m away at night, I used to turn that off and then turn it back on that night but that would then trigger the automation and turn the lights on (and I would do that when I remembered to do it otherwise I would likely forget to turn it back on tomorrow and no lights) But the in-you-face input_booleans, colour coded… well that hasn’t happened. I can also turn those on/off via Google Assistant…
Anyway… my 2c