Automations with >1light fail randomly

[braaak]

Hello everybody,

I am using several automations in my house to turn on/ off lights depending on different triggers and conditions (i.ex. illuminance, motion, …).

When my automations include more than one device (either every light.entity listed one after another as target or as an entity that contains a group of lights) one or more lights randomly fail to turn on.

When executing these automations manually, lights behave as expected.

Tried already the single, restart and parallel mode which did not help.

1st Example: 2 Lights/ only 1 comes up

(the group light.keller_deckenlampe includes the 2 light.entities light.keller_deckenleuchte_1 and light.keller_deckenleuchte_2)

id: 'xxx'
alias: Keller beleuchten
trigger:
  - platform: state
    entity_id: binary_sensor.keller_bewegungsmelder
    to: 'on'
action:
  - service: light.turn_on
    entity_id:
      - light.keller_deckenlampe
    data:
      brightness: 255
      transition: 1
mode: parallel

Trace step result:

Executed: 30. Dezember 2022 um 04:00:51
Result:
params:
  domain: light
  service: turn_on
  service_data:
    brightness: 255
    transition: 1
    entity_id:
      - light.keller_deckenlampe
  target:
    entity_id:
      - light.keller_deckenlampe
running_script: false
limit: 10

Trace timeline:

2nd Example: 6 Lights/ only 4 light up

(the group light.ankleide_deckenlampe includes the 6 light.entities light.ankleide_deckenleuchte_1 and light.ankleide_deckenleuchte_2 and so on)

alias: Ankleide beleuchten
description: ""
trigger:
  - platform: state
    entity_id: binary_sensor.ankleide_bewegungsmelder
    to: "on"
condition: []
action:
  - service: light.turn_on
    entity_id:
      - light.ankleide_deckenlampe
    data:
      brightness: 255
      transition: 1
mode: single

Trace step result:

Executed: 30. Dezember 2022 um 04:04:36
Result:
params:
  domain: light
  service: turn_on
  service_data:
    brightness: 255
    transition: 1
    entity_id:
      - light.ankleide_deckenlampe
  target:
    entity_id:
      - light.ankleide_deckenlampe
running_script: false
limit: 10

Trace timeline:

Any help would be appreciated!

Thank you.

[Thorn (Nicolas)]

I had the same issue a while back.
I moved from turing lights on and off to activating scenes - this solved my problems.

[braaak]

Hello Nicolas!

Wow!

I would be very glad if the answer would be that easy!

I’m messing around now nearly half a year accusing the low quality of the bulbs and exchanging, exchanging ZHA coordinator, installing ZHA routers and re-Setup all the sh** about a thousand times…

So just for the peace of mind: is there any technical explanation for this and why it would be
expectable? And if yes: is there any warning in the docs that I haven’t read? Or would it be a good idea to add such a remark? Just to keep this trouble away from future Odysseus’s?

Or - at the end - is it just Nicolas’s and my misfortune in our coincidental setup of device, house layout and automation idea?

And last but not least: @Thorn - so in your case the scene code contains a list of all light entities or only the group entity?

[rossk]

Have you tried making zigbee groups instead of home assistant groups?

When first starting out with home assistant I used to command multiple lights at one time and found that intermittently random lights would not respond.

If you make a home assistant group the behaviour is the same as the command is still the same - send an individual command to each and every bulb in the group.

Howeve my understanding is if you make a zigbee group instead then only one command is sent to the group therefore limiting errors somewhat.

Might be worth a try, however you should not suffer this issue if you are only commanding a small amount of devices I would not have thought.

[braaak]

Dear @rossk ,

thank you for you idea in advance! But so far - for some strange reason - @Thorn scene approach seems to help. This fits in the picture that controlling light via HomeKit/Siri …

light turns on <=> ZHA controller <=> HA (ZHA-integration) <=> HA-HomeKit-Integration <=> HomeKit (command: turn on)

… never misses any of the bulbs.

Until now it works - but if not I’ll sure give the “Zigbee-group”-approach a try…

[Thorn (Nicolas)]

I really hope it solves your Problems

I just checked in some scenes I used goups and in others I used the single entities - all of my scenes seem to work so it should not be a issue.

I have to say my groups are quite small - the largest one has only 4 entities (the majority has only 2 entities)

I also have no explanation on why this solved my issues …

Additional Info I am using Zigbee2MQTT (with a Sonoff 3.0 dongle) & Shellys for most of my lights

[braaak]

Interesting … For those that could find a technical explanation: as I am using a technically totally other setup compared to @Thorn (a conbee II via ZHA integration) this is maybe really a HA bug?

And for @rossk Could you please explain how to setup zigbee groups in HA via the ZHA integration? Looking at one bulbs settings (under Manage Zigbee-Settings) I do not really understand what to do:

I can only find the coordinator as Bindable Devices and as Bindable Groups see below:

The dropdown arrow leads to:

[rossk]

Go to settings, devices & services, find your conbee and click on configure, then you should find 3 tabs, network, group and visualisation.

[braaak]

@rossk thX!

But I now can’t find the new group? Not as device or as entity… What am I doing wrong?

Most strange thing is: The Coordinators name changed from (I named him earlier in initial setup) ConBee ZHA Zigbee coordinator to dresden elektronik ConBee II (WTF???) and now forms a group HIMSELF ??? (pic1: see Steuerelemente) with the first Zigbee-light-group I made hopefully correct (pics 2 and 3) as described above by @rossk . PLUS now lights EVERYWHERE (even single bulbs in automations) don’t react randomly…

Something is terribly wrong here now!

By the way: the existing groups I listed above (No name group 0x000, No name group 0x0DAE, …) are ALL 13 (?!) repeatedly Zigbee “Groups” of 2 x conbee coordinator (see below). Is that normal? I have NEVER set up any zigbee groups before this!!

[braaak]

No one??

Any idea what is wrong here?

Really need help…

[Thorn (Nicolas)]

I found one topic that might help … although I cannot verify it

ZHA groups - question about config and weird behavior

OK, so some devices need to be in a group? The only default group I currently have is one with only the ConBeeII coordinator. I see the group management page at IP/config/zha/groups/*, but I can’t se anywhere to delete a group either on the main groups page, or if I click on a specific group (where I can add/remove members of that group). I hesitate to create a new group to test if that can be deleted, since I’m afraid I’ll end up with more clutter I can’t get rid of. But do you see a “delete …

Also this might be something common

ZHA randomly creates unnamed zigbee groups

I’m using ZHA with Conbee II, and it seems like something in the system is creating Zigbee groups without my asking for it. I set up a group intentionally once a few months ago. Then I came back after a few week and noticed a bunch of other groups in the list. So I deleted those extra ones, and then a few weeks later I see some other groups. It’s pretty weird. I’m not using these groups for anything. They are all named “No name group 0x0001” with different hex values. Some groups contain …

[braaak]

Thank you!

Found those posts too, but in both it remains unanswered why the hell these groups are created at all by the system. Sure I could delete them, but I think there sure was a reason why they have been set up… So I am afraid I get more problems afterwards then would be solved.

@rossk How did you set up Zigbee-groups? Did you never have trouble? And no fictive groups? Or did you delete them too?

BTW: HAPPY NEW YEAR to you all!

[Thorn (Nicolas)]

Thank you - Happy new year to you too!

Just one question - aside from the ZHA Group issues - are your automations working now?

[braaak]

Funny you’re asking: just asked myself why this automation

alias: Ankleide beleuchten
description: ''
trigger:
  - platform: state
    entity_id: binary_sensor.ankleide_bewegungsmelder
    to: 'on'
condition: []
action:
  - service: scene.turn_on
    data:
      entity_id: scene.ankleidebeleuchtung
      transition: 1
mode: single

that got fired successfully …

… doesn’t turn on the lights?? They stay off physically. When I activate the scene manually: no probs at all: turn on as wanted. Where can I look at HA where it goes wrong?

[Thorn (Nicolas)]

Try target instead of data

alias: Ankleide beleuchten
description: ''
trigger:
  - platform: state
    entity_id: binary_sensor.ankleide_bewegungsmelder
    to: 'on'
condition: []
action:
  - service: scene.turn_on
    target:
      entity_id: scene.ankleidebeleuchtung
      
mode: single

[braaak]

Okay,

@Thorn Thanks again, but this also didn’t help.

Sooo, let’s summarize:

• Zigbee-LightGroups lead to a strange ZHA-coordinator behavior - so I can’t set up those

• HA-LightGroups do not help.

• Neither do HA scenes.

• 2,4 GHz WiFi is set to it’s channel 1, HA-Zigbee is on Zigbee-Channel 25 and there are no other neighbor Wi-FIs that use the 6 / 11 WiFi channel frequencies.

Two factors remain often mentioned here and in other forums:

• Conbee 2 sucks

• Tradfri Bulbs suck (especially the GU10)

Both potentially having a FW that at least leads to probs with each other.

Now I will kick them both off - just to FINALLY END this odyssey:

• Replace the coordinator with a SONOFF Zigbee 3.0 USB Dongle Plus (CC2652P + CP2102(N))

• Add 3 more of these flashed as routers on each floor (assure a powerful Zigbee-Router concerning transmission power and RAM)

• Replace the Tradfri GU10

Now I need once more help: I can’t buy the bulbs I would think are most reliable because 25 GU10 Hue Bulbs would cost about 400 €. Even if I maybe could, I think that’s crazy and I don’t want to spend so much money just for some bulbs.

BUT on the other hand side I really DON’T want any frustrating experiments anymore, sooooo

=>> Has anyone reliable experiences with any manufacturers GU10 bulbs (except IKEA and SIGNIFY) in a (four or at least two floored) BIG House with about 20 GU10 out of a 40-60 bulbs total???

[Thorn (Nicolas)]

Sorry cannot help you with your questions - just one more Update - did you leave the transition: 1 also out of your test?

[braaak]

Yes it was - do you think transition causes the problems?

[Thorn (Nicolas)]

Was just a thought … not based on anything …

[braaak]

Okay, after days of re-setting up everything, before I can tell here anything: how can I automatically pull the devices all more apart from each other in this view without the need of picking each one like a meatball out of the spaghetti and then the next one and so on…??

Btw: looks somehow aesthetic, don’t it? Like the map of a borg sphere - but no: after this night really seems like resistance isn’t futile…