Good point about implementing HA component.
Maybe is better to use esphomelib platform for this? (https://esphomelib.com/)
As I know, Tado needs active internet connection, so if connection is absent, you can’t use it even in HA.
I thought Esphomelib was useful just to create firmware for ESP-based boards.
Anyway, Python is not a difficult language to learn.
About Tado/Netatmo solutions, you’re right.
But with Z-Wave custom solution you have to rely on your HA server, while with Tado/Netatmo solutions you have to rely on your ISP.
(The home router is always involved, thus I don’t take it into account)
TBH, I rely much more on my ISP than on my Raspberry setup… but this is just a matter of choice.
For custom valves, we have to implement some sort of fallback solution for when the HA server is down, to not have a freezing or a burning house…
TBH, I totally agree with you, about HA vs ISP stability.
Thats way, I’m trying to find some independent thermostat-like solution, but with better customization, which support any external sensors/actuators/trvs, related only to external voltage.
In my opinion, esphomelib is totally independent solution, and fit to my requirements much better.
In case, you use star topology (radiators, and UFH), you can use wired actuators in the center + any temperature/humidity sensor in each room, but if you would like use Z-Wave trvs, you have to connect zwave stick to esp somehow. There are a lot of staff there… (spi/usb?)
Anyway, my house has been just built, and I will try to do my best, to cover all my requirements, to make home more comfortable safe and economical
Hello there,
Nice thread! I was wondering if you could elaborate on your setups with regards to the thermostat valves. I am considering to add at least one thermo valve to my radiator in the bath room so that the missis has a warm bathroom and towel in the winter.
I almost went for the TADO but stepped on the brakes with that when I read that those work through their cloud solution. Something i’d like to avoid.
Any suggestion as to a good system which runs with HA?
thanks in advance
Does oi all mean that all heating system controllers (aka hubs) are cloud based? Isn’t there any non-cloud based heating central unit which allows to control TRVs configured in zones as well as optimize a boiler usage? All we can do is connecting TRVs to HA and automate them on our own?
Now I’ve been using Tado for a while and I can say I’m happy with it.
When there’s no connectivity, the house is heated and I can control the temperature in each room manually from the valves.
The valves are always able to connect to the thermostat that controls the boiler and the usage is optimized.
Cloud connection is mandatory just for remote control (native app or HA).
Hi,
i am trying to solve similar issue with the luck for a long time. I can find any company who is able to design / help here.
I have a flat with electrical heater (water is boiled by electricity) then its pushed to radiators with standard valves. The heater is connected can be power on off via relay.
So I was thinking to have a central unit that can manage whole logic / AI / etc and power on/off remote relay and then local thermostats per each room or remote valves.
Still struggling if such a case is doable and if any system can manage that? Any ideas / help?
Thank you
@Guybrush, i read that Tado doesn’t support bus control anymore and that you have to pay a monthly fee. Is this true?
No, as far as I know.
I’m not paying anything to control my heater, it can set power from 0% to 100% depending on the needs of the various valves and the “bath water” temperature. Nothing more, since my heater is not OpenTherm compliant, but it’s perfect for me.
The only fee is for automatic features (eg. auto turn off when nobody’s home or when a window is detected open) but I avoid yearly subscription and pay just during winter months.
(And anyway I could create an automation for this stuff but I don’t have time in this period).
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Thanks @Guybrush, i think i will investigate the OpenTherm solution a little bit further. This for example: DIY OpenTherm Thermostat? - #26 by Ron365
I remember I tried to look for and OpenTherm boiler but in the end I found a good model even though not compliant (also, the installation is outdoor so I had a limited choice).
To see any error code I still have to temporary connect the old thermostat and I can see such an amount of information that I’m not sure OpenTherm would manage them all for each boiler brand and model around the world.
By now, I can modulate the boiler power and temperature, based on valves requests for each room, and it’s a huge step from my old on/off boiler and the dumb thermostat that checked only its own room.
@Guybrush, nice. so how did you do it? You have smart TRV’s? And what do you use in HA? What is controlling the valves?
I have all Tado branded: thermostat and valves.
The boiler is not OpenTherm thus the thermostat is not able to control a lot but it’s all I need.
The thermostat can modulate the boiler heating from 0% to 100% based on the valves individual requests and all the system can work even during web connection failures (but missing mobile/HA control).
Each valve is able not only to modulate its own opening but also to ask the thermostat for some hot water; this way it is as every room had its own thermostat.
This was a big point to me as my house has two floors and I had just one dumb thermostat at the ground floor, so when I used my fireplace (for example) the main room was hot while all the others at the first floor remained really cold.
I could have implemented this using HA, some smart valve and automation but I preferred not to rely on “my own RPI + some python code + some unknown valve supplier” for something as important as having my house heated.
For the same reason I’m not inclined to connect my HA installation, nor any other DIY stuff, to my alarm system or to any smart lock, but this is just a fussiness of mine.
There are other solution, for example Netatmo, but when I checked months ago they lacked OpenTherm support and had a very bad customer support, but maybe they’ve improved in the meantime…
Thanks for answer.
So basically you are rely on something dedicated which possibly has proven quality and reliability.
This is what I’m wondering since beginning: if some generic software thermostats built into HA can compete with dedicated solutions. As you said, Todo has built-in logic to drive boiler and we believe it’s efficient way. I suppose it must be based on years of experience of their developers from the heating industry (which is not I keen to bet in case of HA components).
I think I could be fine with using such a dedicated controller, with ability to connect it to HA just for purpose of remote monitoring or making basic changes temp. setpoints or selecting operating modes.
@Guybrush, i agree with what your saying. I found this though:
This doesn’t look good to me. Wonder what i can expect and the down side also is that you have to pay for external control on Tado, right?
@maxym I’m sure that also with an open source solution we could achieve really good results, I’m not a Python developer, but Python is used in a lot of ML libs and projects.
I’m not saying that Tado developers are somehow better than others, on the contrary I’m all about open source projects.
But I don’t like to entrust a single computer, managed just by myself, with a bunch of self made connections and logics.
It’s happened to have my HA installation down for some reason (due to errors of mine or some hw/sw issue) and I don’t want the system to be responsible of making my family wake up in a freezing house in the middle of the night.
Turnkey solution is the way I prefer (by now).
@fschade Maybe 'cause I’m not from UK but I have no info about any bus support dropping; I checked the official website, the installation manuals and Reddit topics but nothing: could you post a link, please?
From the app I can always see the percentage of heating used on the boiler and I can always set the “bath water” temperature (these are bus-related settings and info).
This would also be a suicide move from them, since it would imply the impossibility to control any new boiler other than by dumb on/off switch.
Thank you.
The author didn’t give any source to its comment but I’ve found this Worcester bus connection — tado° Community.
It seems that bus modulation support depends on the model sold in a given country.
i found someone who did it i think. I will see if i can use this setup:
hello,
is there some solution ie controller, thermostats for lets says 2-3 zones; and valves that can be controlled via controller, also relay that is power on/off via controller based on the temperature read from thermostats and solution that can be integrated into the HASS?
thanks!