Eurotronic Spirit Thermostats firmware issues

I would check your valves. I have had this with several radiators and after lots of troubleshooting, put the original non-smart TRV back on - and what do you know, the valve is just so calcified that it won’t close. Now I just need to work out how to decalcify them when WD-40 and hitting it with a spanner isn’t doing the trick.

I also don’t think the smart TRVs have limiting, so if you are setting valve position manually, I’d suggest capping the range at 5%-95% to avoid sticking.

I have M28 valves and i use metallic m30 adapters.

As @EKC say, check that the valve is moving correctly… I can’t say more than that…

On my side, 7 days of perfect operation with V2 valves… crossing fingers…

But I have replaced all my radiator valves system before putting the spirits… because some of them were hard to close, and some others were stucked in closed position…

I face no issues with the Mechanic valves nor with Danfoss LC-13 or Fibaro.

One of the radiators has brand new m30.

The new version shows less signs but still did it today… overheat the room, keep valve open.
Valves are moving really nicely, i can even close them with my finger.

The issue happens when many SMALL corrections for hours happen, it is like forgeting the closed position.

Graph:
You can see at 2/3 the temperature increases and stays for some time higher than setpoint. Then i recalibrate! you see the sudden increase and start working again! this is… impossible to believe is the valve! when it happens on any radiator at home. And this is with V2, V1 is even more unstable…

Just for information… what is the temperature of your water in the radiators ?

our city heating is 64 degrees © at entrance of home, per the meter of the company in my box.

Also my valves are IMI V-exact II M30.
Old and new, oldest is 3year old, when We put also the underfloor and the new one 2 weeks old.

Hello @billias,

From my side, the Spirit V2 were working perfeclty since one week. Until yesterday. You will se on this graph something that you seems to know very well :wink:

I have sent a message to Eurotronic with the logs… But I don’t have a lot of hope, I think that these devices are definitively bugged… I don’t know why in some cases, these overheat issues arise more often than in other cases, but I am sure of one thing : they arise…

In conclusion, as you said, the Spirit in V2 are just…exactly the same as the V1… but with a doubled price…

I am not crazy! time to send them all back for refund! as this is seriously a major issue.
did you trigger a boost in order to force it to close? or it recovered itself?
In my case they do not recover.

I do not expect a bug to be fixed when V1 and V2 uses the same firmware! this is a firmware issue probably.

My though is: when it tries to go from 1-3% -> 0% it goes nuts! as you can see only on small corrections is triggered
what you have there is ok, cause it recovered. But in my case I need to trigger a boost to force motor to move and recover.

I found on phone some technical support representative. He told me, he believes is a software issue. And wanted me to report. I will also share this topic, as reference.

Hello,

In order to recover, I have reset the valve (i.e. removing/replacing batteries + recalibration). An other way to recover correct operation is to send Boost/off command as you said.

I have one other installation site with 7 Spirit valves (which are in V1, but manufactured in 2020, FW 0.16), and on this site, this is catastrophic, I had two overheats on two different valves in 24 hours.

So there is one variable of the installation that generates loss of calibration, I don’t know what, probably linked to the stroke of the valve or the stifness of it. But in all cases, it will loose calibration, sometimes after one day, and sometimes after one week…

I had the overheating issue. The one valve was overheating by almost exactly 1.5 degrees (no offset).

After recalibrating, it is much better.

Waiting to see how it goes for a few days before diving in for the other rads

Guys, I not using HA (I have Vera+Domoticz), but still want to share with you with me experience regarding Spirit devices.
I have 7 units and using them for over 2 (or 3?) years now. I have different devices from different shipments.

So basically I have all problems that were discussed above:

  1. sometimes when device is powered off, the valve remains open (it is not closing completely); there is 100% (in my case) workaround of this: do off-boost-off cycle when device is off; I have script for this and it is working in my case.

  2. one of my devices is unable to reach seatpoint at all; for example when I write this - this device in on with setpoint=23deg, and temp in this room is 21.3deg. No matter what I do related to calibration the problem persist. But I noticed that when the delta between setpoint and actual temp is large enough (>2deg), the valve will open. I have no idea why this happens and don’t know how to fix that. The workaround is just to change setpoint to 27 or so and close the heater when it is warm enough in the room.

  3. and last - but not least - of Spirit’s problems: in case of another my device, when I set it off the valve is closing completely but after several seconds it is opening again (but there is still ‘off’ on the display). So the valve is open, the heater is working but the status remains off. And after I manually do the on-off cycle, the problem repeats (so after several seconds valve is being opened again). The only workaround I have for this is to remove the batteries and install them again :frowning:
    I’m using external temp with all of my Spirits, but the Vera is configured not to send temp updates to devices that are off.

This is ‘smart home’ in case of Spirits :frowning:

FWIW - new firmware will be coming soon - at least there is now a Github repo - see: https://github.com/EUROTRONIC-Technology/Spirit-ZigBee/issues/8

I verified the firmware upgrade via deCONZ addon yesterday with a spare TRV (note, that the current published firmware is older and the maintainer of the repo is currently working with Eurotronic) - see: https://github.com/EUROTRONIC-Technology/Spirit-ZigBee

So they rather have you rollback instead of fixing their issues?
What a shit show…

And even if that worked the OTAs would only be for the zigbee version.
I returned / sold all 6 of mine as this whole company seems to be a dead end.

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I’ve been using the Spirit valves for a while now. I’m actually controlling them using openHAB but everything I have to say is relevant here.

I am controlling them using direct control mode (valve opening percentage) using a PID controller that uses a room sensor as an input.

The system is working very well in general - I am getting good temperature stabilisation, but I am getting a similar issue to many of the comments above. After a few days, even with the valve position set to 0% I am noticing that the TRVs are still allowing water to flow, and are therefore (over)heating the room. Performing a manual re-calibration (remove batteries & perform ‘INS’) fixes this, but only for a short while.

I see that there is a suggestion above the the Spirit does not cope very well with small control changes around the 0% area and it effectively loses its calibration. There is also a suggestion that performing a regular OFF-BOOST-OFF cycle might be a workaround for this. I am controlling the valve percentage directly so it seems that a 0%-100%-0% cycle might be equivalent to this cycle. Or is there something specific about the OFF-BOOST-OFF cycle that would be different to a 0%-100%-0% cycle?

The only problem I had with the TRVs that without placing repeaters (I use those Ikea USB wall-plugs) the TRVs lost signal. I am running Shedy with some basic script (far from perfect) switching TRVs on/off based on time and temperature.

I do notice from time to time though that the TRV is in an “OFF”-mode and sends wrong status to MQTT - only worarkound is to up temperature and then it works fine again for a few days.

Certainly a lot of fiddling every few days and not a fire-and-forget product. Upside is that it is still better than the manually controlled thermostats I used to have. Redoing our heating just to automate it is financially not viable and I will stick it out with those TRVS for now - with COVID I am at home all the time anyhow :stuck_out_tongue:

Hello Morgan. I have a number of z-wave Spirit valves, using Homeseer… and Homeseer suggests you have direct control over the valve… but in reality the Spirit doesn’t respond to this at all. I read somewhere above that I am not the only one experiencing this. How did you get tot this ‘direct control mode’ as you are saying?

Thanks!

Hi All, I have several of these devices (Z-Wave variant) installed throughout the house for a few years now and they have aways been temperamental.
Does anyone know what the latest firmware for them is, and if it’s possible to update it yourself?
Also, has anyone tried them with ZWaveJS? any better?

I found the answer (finally) to my question about the direct valve control in Homeseer (and works perhaps for other controllers as well, I am talking about the zwave version):

https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/general-home-automation/general-home-automation-hardware-discussion/electronic-circuits-and-hardware-modifications/108233-thermostatic-valve-head-eurotherm-spirit-701003

Many thanks to Michelob there!

seen the original date of this post,… today i applied this way as a working around automation on my spirit and works well:

  • automation action: “change HVAC mode” to heat, desired t° => thermostat setpoint in zwave-JS conf (setpoint 1).

  • automation action: “change preset on” to energy heat, desired t° => thermostat setpoint in zwave-JS conf (setpoint 11).

both triggers are “time” based!

spiritchangesetpreset spiritHVAC

The problem with the overshooting really seems to be dependet if your heater runs 24/7 or if you stop your heater over night.

Looks like this thermostat tries to be more “smart” than I thought.
It tries to calculate how slow a room heats up and how much energy it needs to hold the temperature.

Most likely looking at the data of the past few yours, or the last day that it internally collects.

If you now shut down your heater over night, and the room temperature drops a little bit over the time, the thermostat will start to open the valve more and more.
But as the room temperature drops more instead of the room warming up, the internal calculation of the thermostat goes mad.

When the heater starts again, the thermostat will calculate the needed heat completely wrong and the room temperature will overshoot by a lot.
How much depends on the room size and the actual flow temperature in your heating system.

Long story short:
If you have times where your heater is stopped, create an automation that will reduce the target temperature for the thermostats for that time.

Better do NOT use the “off” state instead of reducing the target temperature (which would be easier as you wouldn’t have to save the real target temperature value somewhere):
There’s a bug in the firmware as described a few times in this thread, so the thermostats often start to heat again after a few minutes even that they still report an “off” state over the Zwave network.

I’m now really happy with the thermostats, since I made these changes.

EDIT:
Oh and one more hint:
Like with every smart thermostat, using a better placed external room temperature sensor helps a lot to keep the temperature stable. The larger the room, the bigger is the benefit.

You will see a way more stable room temperature and a lot less jumpiness in the valve control.
Which results in a more comfortable feeling.

There are two ways to do this:

  • Use the official external sensor feature of the thermostats by settings temperature offset to -128
  • Calculate the offset yourself and write that as offset compensation into the thermostat.

For both are solutions in this thread:

The first way is the official supported and is most likely easier to set up.

I use the second one, as it still uses the internal sensor, just with a little shifting.
So if Home-Assistant (or the external sensor) dies, the thermostat will still be able to detect room temperature changes.
It will heat the room a little bit to much or too less, but it won’t freak out completely because of missing room temperature updates.

Hi Thyraz,
Thank you for detailed explanation.
I think you are right.
In my case to overcome these issues I turn on the boiler when one of the valves opens more than 18 % and turn it off it when all of them go below.
I also use external sensors (MCP9808 and Netatmo CO2 sensor) is some rooms.
It works fine. but, still, from time to time I find radiator at 70C with closed valve.
To overcome it I made an automation to turn thermostats to full power once a day without turning on the boiler.
It looks like full power calibrates Thermostat but turning it to 100% and then to 0%

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