My BACKUP is 20G by itself. Granted I’m collecting a LOT of power data. But you may want to reconsider that plan. I agree with the SSD. They’re cheap and way note reliable
Not sure if I’m missing something here. My system will have:
32GB onboard (CM4) storage
1TB SSD
The last time I did a Linux install I had put the main system on an SSD, and then selected (it was about 8 years ago, so memory is a bit fuzzy here) to put everything else on a partition on a large HD (kind of equating the eMMC to SSD on the Pi to SSD to HD of the PC, based on total volume), so I was thinking I would treat the storage above about the same way, if available.
However, I just did a little quick research on eMMC storage, and it seems the memory type (NAND Flash) is the same as SSD, and read speed can be about the same, although total throughput is usually faster for SSD (I’m not sure the M.2 connector on the HA Yellow is fast). Is this the reason for preferring the SSD?
Its similar… I wouldn’t even attempt it without one of the newer NAND type extended wear ones. I will absolutely say they’re better than older ones but sds will (not if, when) fail. The format flat out wasn’t designed for DB access and that’s your #1 data profile for HA.
So either have a spare and get good at backup and restore or plan an alternate. Considering how cheap an M.2 is these days I just bought two and keep one with a basic HA image on it in my desk drawer just in case.
I don’t even have an SD card in my pi anymore.
I am still confused, not even contemplating using a SD card (except to install the system) at all. Is the eMMC built on the CM4 module the same thing? Sorry, not trying to take to much of you time with these questions.
And, thus it begins.
My first project was an ESP8266-01 with a light sensor to remind me that I had left my attic light on.
That’s bonkers dude. Even with like 30 devices in the energy dashboard, my backups were ~2.8 GB. Only time mine got that big were with backing up the media folder after installing Frigate.
I thought it was the DB - but I went and looked at it earlier today, (45 breakers and associated devices in the dash) that’s only 2 of it. I’ve got to have something dumping into a media folder and getting snagged somewhere I’m not aware of yet. (Back to the actual discussion though - I still stand on the SSD thing but I just realized Op was talking about the CM4 version - have to keep remembering that’s a different animal.
@Jon2001 CM 4 onboard - got it. That memory is similar, but the bandwidth and speed of the SSD are still superior. Tradeoff is power need. SSDs on loaded Pi4’s can overwhelm a mediocre power supply.
All the same I’m a fan of the removable SSD for speed but ALSO - removability / serviceability (My backup strategy involves an identical disk in my desk drawer already loaded with a fairly recent HAOS build, swap, start, load backup.)
EDIT: Also thanks for the note on Frigate - Unifi is the culprit. Fixed.
OK, so you might skip the eMMC storage altogether and just put everything on the SSD. I have (will have) 1GB, and certainly don’t expect to do anything requiring large amounts of space for quite awhile, so I think it should be fine.
Thanks once again for all your time and patients in figuring this out. Can’t wait to get my hardware and start playing with it. Unfortunately, I ordered it right at the beginning of a Chinese holiday, so shipping will be delayed until (I think) the 7th.
Thanks,
Jon
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I’m using a “Lenovo Tiny M73” PC (Used) that I purchased under $100, and it’s working great! I installed PROXMOX and created three server nodes.
Home Assistant is running with 100 GB of space and 16 GB of RAM, while the other two nodes are running Ubuntu and various containers.
I also have Frigate surveillance server up and running, and it’s truly amazing! There are plenty of other incredible things running on that server as well.
Home Assistant offers practically unlimited possibilities,
far beyond just controlling lights.
For a robust solution, I recommend considering a NUC or a Tiny PC with a full CPU, RAM, and SSD storage.
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I have a similar HA Yellow setup. The easiest way, IMHO, to install HAOS (image specific for the Yellow) is to place your M.2 NVME SDD into a USB external enclosure temporarily. Then use the Raspberry Pi flasher tool to install the HAOS Yellow image (downloaded manually) on to the M.2 NVME Drive with it plugged into your PC. Then simply remove it from the USB enclosure, install it on the Yellow board, and power the system on. As long as you’ve never installed anything on the CM4’s eMMC storage, the CM4 will boot directly off of the M.2 NVME drive.
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I don’t have a external enclosure unfortunately, so no joy there. Actually, you just reminded me though that I have to find a SD card or USB drive big enough to hold the image to load the OS.
Hmmm, I just checked the instructions for Yellow (“Getting Started – Home Assistant Yellow”) and it doesn’t say how much room I’ll need. Not helpful. Do you have any idea?
I use Chromebooks mostly, so may try to use the Chromebook recover tool to flash the image, I’ll have to report here (or in a more appropriate topic, if I can find one) on how well this works.
Thanks,
Jon
PS. Just found the images on Github, about 32MB, I’m pretty sure I already have something that big!
No. Don’t complicate the installation with a VM. Or Docker. Keep it simple- just flash the HAOS image to the boot device. Done.
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Again. Keep it simple. Get the HAOS installation running before you experiment with storage.
I started out using an RPi with a 32GB SD card and like others have mentioned the SD eventually failed. I moved up to installing VirtualBox on a Dell i7-6700T micro pc with 8GB of ram and a 500GB SSD. Even though it solved the SD failure issue it seemed like there were stability issues. I was constantly having to restart the VM. I finally moved up to a BMAX with a 12th Gen Intel N100 B4, 16GB DDR4 ram and a 512GB SSD. I’m running HAOS and everything is running great. Performance is outstanding with plenty of resources for expansion.
Your lenovo tiny m73 specifications plz?
I am planning to buy one for home assistant, frigate and other things. Should i? How well it can perform with 70+ devices(zigbee+wifi).
Lenovo, Dell, etc have specs for their old machines still on their websites. The M73 specs are here, and include:
- 4th generation intel celeron, Pentium, i3, i5 or i7 CPU
- 16GB max DDR3 in two SODIMM sockets
- VGA / DisplayPort video built-in
- 2x USB 3.0 ports, plus USB 2.0 ports
- ONE internal SATA 3.5" 500GB (5400 rpm) hard disk
- NO PCI expansion slots
- NO expansion slots for disk drives, etc
- originally supplied with Windows 7
Not a bad machine for its age (circa 2014), but I would suggest that a newer machine with later generation CPU will have more life and be better value. Not so much the machine breaking down, but being able to find spare parts and keep up with OS updates etc. Being a PC (albeit in a very small case) you can swap the CPU, RAM and Hard disk - but you cannot upgrade the features provided by the mainboard’s chipset, such as max size and speed of RAM memory, or which CPUs will work with it.
70 devices should not be a problem; it is voice and video processing which will place most strain on the computer. How many video stream are you running, and what resolution ?
HA runs “headless”, so once installed you don’t need screen or keyboard connected. Almost all sensors etc connect via ethernet, so you probably only need 1 or 2 USB ports. Because they are running headless there is no need for fancy graphics, and so a business grade machine will do nicely … and there are plenty of used >5-year-old business PCs on ebay after the corporates upgrade.
Today on ebay australia a Lenovo M73 starts from Aus$99 - but that is the larger case which fits a DVD drive (which you are unlikely to use).
My own HA PC is a Dell Optiplex 7500 - also a SFF (small form factor) but with 7th gen Intel i5-7500T CPU @ 2.70GHz, I swapped one of the RAM modules to give 20MB and upgraded the Hard disk. I am not using Frigate or the newer voice assistant, and I have not seen the CPU usage go over 3% -but it is great to know there’s plenty “left in the tank” for adding these later. Today on ebay Australia I count over 25 PCs with 6/7th generation CPUs selling on ebay for Aus $99-$150
The next step up is generation 8/9th, and I found a Lenovo ThinkCentre M720s SFF Intel i3 8100 for $134, and 7 below Aus$200.
Note that some prices on ebay are rediculously high, and this usually does not indicate more RAM Hard Disk or SSD. Having decided on a generation and price range, compare the PCs which are listed.
How much $$?
As a baseline, I am running Home Assistant bare-metal on an Intel NUC i3-8109 3GHz. I have approaching 100 devices, mostly WiFi and fewer Zigbee and maybe 4 or 5 Z-Wave. (And a few 433 MHz remotes). I am also running nine WiFi cameras using the Frigate add-on. I paid about $60 for the NUC on eBay, plus the cost of a 2Gb M.2 SSD and 8Gb of RAM put my cost closer to $125.
Note that most ISP-provided routers are the low bidder and will crap out above 50 (or-so) client connections. (WiFi and Ethernet, total). Consumer routers aren’t much better. Out of frustration I decided to bite the bullet and buy commercial grade router, switches and access-points. Very pleased with the result.
On the Lenovo tiny m73, the first thing I would do is replace the ancient HDD with a 2Gb SSD.
Bottom line, I agree with @donburch888 that you should be looking for something newer. Unless the cost for the Lenovo is free.
Typo? Did you mean 20 Gb?
I did 
Just showing my age … 20MB was the size of hard disk on my first PC, and somehow it still seems inconceivable that we now have 1000 times that - in RAM !
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Youngster. My first HSS was a corporate purchase. $2800 for 10MB expansion chassis for the original IBM 5100 PC. A floppy disk drive was about $200.