Hey Insteon users!

I have now got my system up and running in a Raspberry pi 4 connected to my old hub. All my wired devices are working, I am now ready to tackle the next steps.

  1. I assume that there is still no way to update or delete scenes or timers currently in my hub?
  2. In the Insteon Configuration Page, selecting a device, selecting the All Link database, I can see 5 record IDs. I can see the orange + in the corner, so I can see how to add links, but how do I delete one of the records? I assume if I can puzzle out which record IDs are associated with an existing group or timer still active in the hub, deleting that record will take it away from the existing timer/scene so I can make sure that existing scenes/timers don’t interfere with new ones I create in HA. There doesn’t seem to be a simple “delete” button
  3. Reading the documentation for Configuration and automation led me down a rabbit hole of Blueprints and YAMLs and a raft of options. For now, I just want a timer that tells my fountain to turn on and off at a particular time each day. Isn’t there a simple timer function? I created two automations, one to turn the fountain on, one to turn it off. The old insteon GUI had a screen for on times, off times, and which days to have it work for either scenes or devices, but I do not see a simple function like that. Am i missing something obvious, or is it just the fact that I have a very powerful tool and there is a long learning curve?

Still no change to the Insteon issue of some devices not responding in the dashboard after updating to the latest Home Assistant Core 2022.5.5. One other interesting point to note - for all of the switch toggles that are non-functional in HA, when I click them I do see that seems to be transmitted via HA over the Insteon network because my range extender lights blink every time I click the switch toggles… yet nothing happens! This doesn’t make sense. The switches are fine, the hub is fine… I still believe that something is broken in HA. How do we get this marked as a known issue so that it can get looked at?

I found about 10 devices in scenes that behaved strangely also. Activating the scene in HA would turn them on but they showed still off in HA.

Finally after digging through the Insteon Control Panel, I found that the data1 attribute in the ALDB entry for the device in the scene was 0. Which should have been 0 bright which is off. Not sure why they were this way. Maybe the data is HA was wrong or maybe Insteon ignored on to 0.

I changed them in the control panel to the desired level and wrote the records back to the device. They now work correctly.

I found your comment while searching for a way to view and edit/delete existing Insteon-native timers (from before the company vaporized - things that are on my hub and working fine, but I want to adjust them). Did you figure out how to find or view the timers that already exist?

Just for the record I have the integration working fine between my Insteon Hub and HA. I see all my devices and can control them manually without issue (sure, I had to manually map them to the proper Areas in HA, but that was easy enough).

I’m specifically just wondering about stuff like my porch light, which has a “turn on at Sunset+30min” timer, I think, and I basically just want to delete the Insteon timer and move all my logic into HA.

As of right now, I do not believe there is anyway to “delete” scenes or “timers” as you ask, short of a 100% reset of the hub and rebuild. However, you can set the ALDB record to “in_use” as “false” by unchecking the “in_use” checkbox and writing the record back. This is not removing the record, it is making it not used.

So … updating scenes = yes. Certainly you can select a device and add a record for the target scene or change a record for a device in the scene to ramp slower or change brightness.

Updating timers = no. They are not directly addressable. But you could mark as not “in_use” all the devices from the scene being activated with the timer and put them into a new scene. Then you can use HA to trigger that scene based on the timer (aka, after “sunset”).

I have this template sensor in my setup as shown below. It uses “jq” to parse the “insteon_devices.json” file into something more suited to visualize scenes and what devices are in the scenes.

In a template sensor, I do this:

- platform: command_line
  scan_interval: 30
  name: insteon_groups
  command: "jq '{ groups: [ .[0].\"address\" as $modemaddress | .[] | .\"address\" as $device_address | select(.\"address\" != $modemaddress) | .aldb | .[] | .target=$modemaddress |  { group: .\"group\", in_use: .\"in_use\", device_address: $device_address, target: .\"target\", controller: .\"controller\", brightness: .\"data1\", ramp_rate: .\"data2\", button: .\"data3\"} ]  | sort_by(.group) | map(select(.\"group\" > 20)) | map(select(.in_use))}' insteon_devices.json"
  value_template: "{{ now() }}"
  json_attributes:
    - groups

This yields a sensor that is like this:

Essentially gathering the Insteon group information together by reorganizing the JSON file that is the cache of Insteon information.

Then I have a input_select that is populated with the group numbers via an automation:

- id: '1652294634942'
  alias: Set Insteon Device Groups
  description: ''
  trigger:
  - platform: time_pattern
    minutes: '1'
  - platform: homeassistant
    event: start
  condition: []
  action:
  - service: input_select.set_options
    data_template:
      entity_id: input_select.insteon_modem_groups
      options: '{{ state_attr(''sensor.insteon_groups'',''groups'') | map(attribute=''group'')
        | unique | list  }}

        '

So I can display this:

Then on selecting a group, I can populate the devices in that group. I used two sensors but this could probaby be improved:

sensor:
# Given a group, get all the targets for that group
# This requires two pieces of information, the target address as well as the group number for multi-button, multi-outlet devices
  - name: "insteon_device_groups"
    state: "{{ 'OK' }}"
    attributes:
        in_groups: "
{% set glist = state_attr('sensor.insteon_groups','groups') %}
{% set devices = namespace(switch=[]) %}
{% for value in glist %}
{% if (value.group | int == states('input_select.insteon_modem_groups') | int)  %}
{% set devices.switch = devices.switch + [(value.device_address[0:2] + '.' + value.device_address[2:-2] + '.' + value.device_address[-2:] + '_' + value.button | string) | upper] %}
{% endif %}
{% endfor %}
{{ devices.switch | unique | sort | list }}"

# Given the targets for a group, return a list of the entities 
  - name: insteon_group_entities
    state: "{{ 'OK' }}"
    attributes:
        scene_entities: "
{% set gp = namespace(groups=[]) %}
{% for ent in integration_entities('insteon') %} 
{% if state_attr(ent,'insteon_address') + '_' + state_attr(ent,'insteon_group') | string in state_attr('sensor.insteon_device_groups','in_groups') %} 
{% set gp.groups = gp.groups + [ent] %}
{% endif %} 
{% endfor %} 
{{ gp.groups | unique | sort }}"

These would look like this if you look at Dev Tools:

So putting that together, I can has an input_select to choose a group number, see the devices that are in the group and their state. In my Dashboard, it looks like this:

image

Overall, I added features to allow adding to the scene, removing from the scene, and testing the scene with some custom buttons that run various insteon commands like scene_on, scene_off, add_all_link, etc.

For instance, if I tested group 30 “on” I would see this:

I could then select the “Back Steps” and add that to the group through Insteon button linking OR I could use the Insteon control panel to add records for group 30 in the Hub and Back Steps entity.

I would note in that solution, I am selecting all groups (except those from the Hub) and only the groups that target the hub – meaning not button to switch direct links unless they are in the Hub. That may not be the proper way, I am still a bit unclear on that.

I think I remember you saying you have about 80 inateon devices so I’m hoping maybe you have encountered this problem or know how to fix it. Lol I only have eight insteon switches and now I’ve started buying TP Link and other stuff to continue integration with Home Assistant but I have only one on/off switch that has a delay. It turns on right away but when I try and turn it off it can take anywhere from 5 to 30 seconds for it to shut off and update in Home Assistant. If I hit the switch manually it works fine. Any ideas? Bad switch? Bad link to the hun? Or something I’m doing wrong?

It is an on/off switch or a dimmer? What is the type of switch?

Note: Using the switch manually is of course immediate. Seems odd that it turns on immediately in HA but off is so slow.

Yeah I hear ya. This is Just an


on off switch. I have another one same exact model that works fine. And I have six dimmers that work fine.

Not sure I can help there. In the insteon control panel, maybe let’s look at on/off. I do not have that type of device. You would look up the Insteon Hub … look at the ALDB for Group 0 and Group 1 for that device. Are there any differences?

I can certainly tell you that some things are delayed in HA GUI (but not the actual light). Like if I do run insteon.scene_on for one of my scenes, I can see in HA them turn on one by one over time, but the lights are on immediately.

insteon_scene_on

In that video, the lights for those 5 devices turned on all at once, immediately. The GUI on the other hand you see. Delays in state notification, etc. I would guess.

I am wondering if it might be something to do with your house wiring phases, like was the issue with X-10? Is the device is on the “other side” of the house wiring from the hub? With only eight you likely do not have a repeater? I’m not sure now but I think switches only use power line communication, not wireless, and to get from one 120v leg to the other 120v leg of the 240v service the signal has to use a “signal” bridge like the power line transformer feeding the house, or your range, dryer or 240v car charger, if they’re on. When you try and turn it off and there is a 5-30s delay, is that only in the HA GUI update but the device actually turns off immediately or is the delay actually in the switch executing the command? Can you try swapping that switch with one that responds immediately and see if the problem follows the switch or does the problem stay with the location?

Repair it!! My 2413S “died” a couple of years ago after several years of use and I found this thread, purchased a few dollars worth of capacitors, replaced them and brought it back to life!

Could you post your lovelace for this view?

I have never played with or configured Insteon groups so I am trying to unravel what I am seeing here…

First of all, I, like many others am extremely grateful for all the work done here to allow us to continue using our Insteon devices after they shutdown with no notice, so thank you!
I had similar experience to lots of the folks here in that I was shocked when my Insteon app suddenly wouldn’t work, etc. I also had a similar experience when I discovered HA and was able to install it and restore access to my Insteon network within an hour or so. It has been fun to learn about HA and use its awesome features to do things that Insteon alone couldn’t come close to.

My setup has been rock solid until an issue yesterday morning when the scheduled scenes in my Insteon hub did not execute, and then my HA automations for Insteon devices also wouldn’t work. I checked the logs and HA was indicating that it could not connect to my Insteon hub. I power-cycled my Insteon hub and then everything went back to normal.
Now I am wondering if this was just an issue with my hub, or if anyone else has experienced this?
I know that the Insteon hub continuously tries to communicate with the Insteon cloud services and fails and either reboots itself or at least bounces its network interface every ~30 minutes (as seen by switchport activity). I wonder if some threshold was reached after so many retries since the early April shutdown?
Has anyone else experienced this?
Thank you!

Regarding my earlier post about several of my Insteon dimmers being unresponsive in the HA dashboard - Same issue after updating to HA Core 2022.6.2.

Given that many of my other Insteon switches and dimmers are working just fine with HA, I’m wondering if somehow HA has saved an old state that needs to be flushed or reset for the devices that are unresponsive? Resetting the physical device, hub, or rebooting HA has no effect. Is there a way to remove the unresponsive devices from the integration and have HA re-discover them from scratch? I feel like this would help to solve the problem. How can this be done?

Here is the YAML for that view, of course you need many other things:

  - theme: Backend-selected
    title: INSTEON
    path: dev
    icon: ''
    badges: []
    cards:
      - type: vertical-stack
        cards:
          - type: custom:auto-entities
            card:
              type: entities
              title: Insteon Hub Group Explorer
              show_header_toggle: false
              state_color: true
            filter:
              include:
                - entity_id: input_select.insteon_modem_groups
                  options:
                    state_color: true
                    icon: mdi:devices
              exclude: []
          - type: custom:auto-entities
            card:
              title: Group Devices
              show_header_toggle: false
              type: entities
            filter:
              template: >-
                {{ state_attr('sensor.insteon_group_entities','scene_entities')
                }}
            sort:
              method: friendly_name
      - type: vertical-stack
        cards:
          - type: custom:auto-entities
            card:
              type: entities
              title: Select Device
              show_header_toggle: false
              state_color: false
            filter:
              include:
                - entity_id: input_select.insteon_devices
                  options:
                    state_color: true
                    icon: mdi:devices
              exclude: []
          - type: custom:auto-entities
            card:
              title: Set Device Properties
              show_header_toggle: false
              type: entities
            filter:
              template: '{{ states.sensor.selected_insteon_device.state }}'
            options:
              type: custom:slider-entity-row
              state_color: true
          - type: custom:auto-entities
            card:
              type: entities
              title: Select Insteon Group
              show_header_toggle: false
            filter:
              include:
                - entity_id: input_number.target_insteon_group
                  options:
                    icon: mdi:home
      - type: vertical-stack
        cards:
          - type: horizontal-stack
            title: Add/Delete Insteon Group Device
            cards:
              - type: custom:button-card
                icon: mdi:home-group-plus
                name: Add
                styles:
                  card:
                    - height: 100px
                hold_action:
                  action: call-service
                  service: insteon.add_all_link
                  service_data:
                    mode: controller
                    group: >-
                      [[[ return
                      parseInt(states["input_number.target_insteon_group"].state)
                      ]]]
                  confirmation:
                    text: >-
                      [[[ return "About to add:\n\n" +
                      states["input_select.insteon_devices"].state + " to group
                      " +
                      parseInt(states["input_number.target_insteon_group"].state)
                      + "\n\nSelect 'OK' and go to the " +
                      states["input_select.insteon_devices"].state + " and press
                      the set button." ]]]
              - type: custom:button-card
                icon: mdi:home-group-minus
                name: Remove
                styles:
                  card:
                    - height: 100px
                hold_action:
                  action: call-service
                  service: insteon.delete_all_link
                  service_data:
                    group: >-
                      [[[ return
                      parseInt(states["input_number.target_insteon_group"].state)
                      ]]]
          - type: horizontal-stack
            title: Test Insteon Group
            cards:
              - type: custom:button-card
                icon: mdi:lightbulb-multiple-off
                triggers_update: all
                name: 'Off'
                styles:
                  card:
                    - height: 100px
                tap_action:
                  action: none
                hold_action:
                  action: call-service
                  service: insteon.scene_off
                  service_data:
                    group: >-
                      [[[ return
                      parseInt(states["input_number.target_insteon_group"].state)
                      ]]]
              - type: custom:button-card
                icon: mdi:lightbulb-multiple
                triggers_update: all
                name: 'On'
                styles:
                  card:
                    - height: 100px
                tap_action:
                  action: none
                hold_action:
                  action: call-service
                  service: insteon.scene_on
                  service_data:
                    group: >-
                      [[[ return
                      parseInt(states["input_number.target_insteon_group"].state)
                      ]]]

Hoping to save some others some frustration as I’ve found a fix to my issue. After reading that the Insteon app was back online, it seems that these same switches were not working properly in HA were not working properly in the app as well. Re-adding them to the Insteon app has resolved the issue in HA. In hindsight I probably should have reset the hub to factory defaults before I started re-doing everything in HA. Must have been some residual data on the hub that was causing an issue.

FYI, prior to the Insteon app going back online, I did try (many times) to reset the physical switch, restart the hub, etc. That didn’t work. There is no easy way to delete a device/entity in HA without deleting references to it in json files, etc. I never tried that. It seems that because I didn’t reset my hub to factory defaults before I integrated with HA and started adding everything there, that is what caused the issue with some of the switches. Must have been some conflicting data in the database on the hub or something like that. I don’t know how adding devices to the Insteon app affects any data stored on the hub itself - you obviously don’t need to have the devices in the Insteon app to add them to HA and control them from there. But that’s what fixed the issue with the switches that were unresponsive in HA - either delete or just re-add them to the Insteon app. Problem solved. Hope this helps others out with the same problem.

Thank God Insteon went down.
Also good to hear it’s back up but……

I’ve always been a tech guy and somehow home assistant has passed by me for years without me knowing about it. Thanks to the hub going off-line when you guys made it all possible with Home Assistant this app has now taking over my life lol

Televisions door locks lighting thermostats the list goes on lol. And still building.

Anyone else have an issue since Insteon came back online where HA won’t initialize the Insteon integration any longer? All of my Insteon devices are “unrecognized”. Downloaded Insteon app and all my device work there once again. Would prefer both to work, if possible without having to reinstall everything.