Home assistant and hass.io are very confusing

Home Assistant Container. Use docker-compose to configure it (and any other containers you wish to install) and Portainer to manage them.

The alternative is Home Assistant Supervised. However the only Linux distro they officially support is Debian. Even though Ubuntu is based on Debian, they will only support Debian. Raspberry Pi OS (new name of Raspbian) is also based on Debian but I don’t know where they stand on that.

Lots of stuff to find out and test … Thanks for the info!
I’ll probably give that a shot. Would “HA Container” have the installable addons?

No. Add-Ons are curated applications installed as Docker containers.They are customized to work seamlessly with Home Assistant, specifically via an included app called Supervisor (yet another docker container).

You can install the same apps as standard Docker containers, with Home Assistant Container, but they will require slightly more configuration effort.

If you definitely want to use Add-Ons then you must install Home Assistant (as a disk image for RPI 3, which uses Home Assistant OS), or Home Assistant Supervised on Debian.

Hmmm … had HassOS/HASSIO and scrapped it, mainly because I couldn’t for the life of me find out how to integrate all my scripts and stuff I could easily install on Hassbian. Went back to that, even though I can’t upgrade anymore. I did like the idea of addons and the supervisor, though, but it was too closed a system.

I do understand the view of the devs, though. Really open always means almost un-supportable. But we have a great community, and some docs. Maybe there should only be two flavours: “HA-in-a-box” (ready-made system w/ OS, full support) and “HA-for-the-geeks” (all open, no official support, you-have-to-know-what-you-do).

Hassbian w/ venv was quite performant and worked extremely well while allowing all customizations on OS level. I’m actually wary of running a lot of docker containers on a poor little Pi. (Not even being a Docker-supported platform I heard.)

I need more machines for testing … more money to buy them … more time … :rofl:

If you install the ssh addon you can access the hass-core system directly.

Well, there is. Just pull the code from: https://github.com/home-assistant/core and run it.

Using Docker adds very little overhead, it is more or less the same as VENV.

Ok, I didn’t realise that. So… it’s all just “Home Assistant”? (for now at least).

For example, is there any different to the Home Assistant that’s installed fully on a device (whether it be Raspi or fully fledged linux or windows box)? I realise there’s no difference between a full install in linux and a VM (since the second is just a virtualisation of a normal install).

What was once referred to HASS.IO is just plain and simple HA?

And since I’m thinking they are now one and the same, there is no difference, that would mean anything that can be normally done in HA, I can do in this dockerised version of it?

I am sure I read somewhere it shouldn’t be “Docker-ised”, is that (still) the case? I really couldn’t find it again when I looked for it again today. I think my main problem here is just not being able to fully conceptualise and understand the connections between containers.

I’m only very early in the setup of this (only a couple of days in with very few devices), most of them are still sitting around waiting to be flashed. Plus I’ve made a mess of it, I think I might spin out a complete new VM and see how we go from there. Try and clean it up a bit.

I’m probably touching a few nerves here, but what about HASS OS, posts on it are relatively recent (like this: Hass.io on Synology DSM (native package) ). Yes the thread started almost a year ago, but it still quite active, even today.

I’m pretty sure I have read that HassOS does have limitations. Is it something to stay away from?

I know a raspi is not optimal (because SD storage essentially), but is there an optimal setup? I would expect any linux distro would be ok and preferable over windows, which is no problem by me.

Anyway, thanks for yours and other people’s posts on it. I have just been frustrated by the fact it’s not as straight forward as I was expecting. I do have a specific config question but I will ask a question specifically about it. Thanks again for your reply

YAY! I’ll go get my boots! :smiley:

I’ve tried to explain it in this doc: https://github.com/fredrike/home-assistant.github.io/blob/29b4ac4c9a9cea95ce2b2fbda8235ecb28aeb413/source/_faq/ha-vs-hassio.markdown, not sure if my changes adds to the confusion though.

It is active (I’m the developer of it). It is however not official supported and should have been renamed to HomeAssistant (not HomeAssistan-core) on Synology DSM.

Hang on, now I’m confused again…

If add-ons are only “curated applications installed as docker containers” and these are installed only using “HA Supervisor” which in itself is a docker container…

Is there anything that is known as Home Assistant with add-ons that has nothing to do with docker? By the sounds of it, Add-on ARE docker containers.

so if I do spin up a complete install of HA outside of docker (I assume that is what is called “core”), then anything else that’s installed from within HA is already a container?

One of my initial questions was about whether add-ons existed within HA and was told that hassio IS HA, but if add-ons are only docker containers, then…

/seriously confused.

:frowning:

Ok, I have just read your cheat sheet, it’s kind of making a little sense.

From that though:

The text can be summarizes as this:

  1. Home Assistant Core is a Python program that provide the ability to track, control and automate your devices
  2. Home Assistant contains Home Assistant Core (1.) and a Supervisor that manage the Core and install Addons trough Docker, among other things
  3. Hassos is an operation system just like Ubuntu that comes with Home Assistant (2.) installed

“Home Assistant” itself is a “package” of “Home Assistant Core” and Docker Add-on’s including “Supervisor”

Is the docker environment completely managed by the supervisor?

It really does seem like they arsed up the naming convention on this. To have a product HA and rename it HA-C and another one called HAIO and rename it to HA… seems crazy to me. The information on the internet dates very quickly but hangs around forever, to have a product that changes so much (in what is included or not included, how it is installed, managed, configured etc) it makes sifting through that information very messy and unnecessarily difficult.

I thank everyone for their patience.

You could say “core” if you install HA using python virtualenv ( that’s how I roll ) if you use “core” there are no containers inside of HA… But your Home Assistant Core could still connect to another application that is running in docker some where. For example maybe you have HA “core” installed on a NAS and Mosquitto mqtt installed with docker on a RPI – That could work or mosquitto could be a “bare-metal” install on a computer somewhere or even in the cloud.

The supervisor is basically a docker manager, made specific for Home Assistant with tailored integration to the HA UI. ( portainer could be an example of a generic docker manager )

God yet another thread in the same sphere.

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That’s making sense.

(I’m slowly getting this guys, thanks).

So I’m back to re-reading the installation (https://www.home-assistant.io/getting-started/) page with a newfound knowledge that half the videos on the internet about Home Assistant are talking about Home Assistant Core because back then, that’s what it was called, and not the Home Assistant of today, which is…

The penny just dropped.

  • Home Assistant (of today) IS (just) an image, designed for specific hardware (Pi, Tinkerboard, NUC etc) or a VM and is “complete”. This is most akin to what was once called hass,io. (hence hass,io >> HA)

  • Home Assistant (that is in most of the YT videos) is what is now called Home Assistant - Core, and

  • a) Home Assistant - Core (as a python package on “whatever”) can still have the components of Supervisor and Supervisor-managed “add-on’s” OR *

  • b) Home Assistant - Core (as a python package) can include bare-metal self managed components

* is the only one I’m not sure about now.

Yes you seem to be understanding now!

So we say the supervisor is the docker manager, than the addon are the docker containers specifically made to be run by the supervisor – and HassOS is the underlying operating system of it all. When the container is an “addon”, it is managed by the supervisor, which allows it to be configured from the HA UI.

If you don’t have the supervisor, then you can’t use add-ons, instead you would use a plain docker container – For example many people run Plex media server, which is also available as an addon – but what if you didn’t use HA – How would you install Plex then – point is, anything that is an “add-on” can still be installed and configured separate but still work with HA.

Well, if the front page of the Home Assistant website had its own cheat sheet explaining the evolution of the product, then people wouldn’t be so confused. By the sound of your post, it’s a regular occurrence and (as stated before) given the fact that information on the web dates very quickly, someone’s explanation of it last year is not necessarily valid or accurate today.

Hence the need for another one of these threads. :slight_smile:

It’s hard to get… I had to read numerous explanation, all saying the same thing, said by different people before I finally “got it” – And it’s easier for some of us that have been around awhile, only having to learn one new option at a time as opposed to jumping in now when there’s multiple ways to run HA

I am not criticising you, it just gets boring that there is no moderation to speak of on this forum. If there was, you’d have been referred to the latest word and then this thread locked, or merged to the blog thread.

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I think this seemed ( mostly ) more about trying to figure out what’s what. Not necessarily trying to reopen that previous debate

It explains what is what.

Well, we also rely on people flagging things if they think mod attention is required :wink: Seriously… people have to flag stuff, or it relies on mods spotting a thread and happening to think the same way.

At which point the pitchfork brigade comes out again, complaining about censorship :stuck_out_tongue:

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Yeah ok, it’s a fair post, but I have got more from this thread than that. I haven’t read the user comments yet, I’m not at home and I’m on mobile but wanted to quickly reply.

From what is in that blog post I would have been a little unclear of the subtly between what’s described as “Home Assistant” vs “Home Assistant Supervised”. Notably:

This method was previously known as “Hass,io”, and includes our Operating System (HassOS), the Supervisor, and add-ons. It can be run on various single-board computers or in a virtual machine.

As Supervised is described the same way, both previously known as “Hass,io” and both running on Linux computers. The difference being that the first includes HassOS.

I get it now, especially after the help from here. So I thank people like you for allowing threads like this to stay open and allow noobs like us to get a chance to understand it. I’m glad That people took the time and it’s greatly appreciated.

Thanks