I've just registerd this account to tell you that i am so (breaking) update tired

SHOULD being the operative word here.

Consider a very common, straightforward usecase: changing the brightness of lights that are currently on, while leaving off lights off.

There is no native support for anything like this, so we must turn to a custom script, HACS, or an add-on. I have had a career writing software for over 20 years. Writing a script with conditionals, or any kind of logic, or any kind of complexity in YAML is…insane. It’s just insane. It’s like if someone handed you a spreadsheet and told you to build a video game with it.

The fact that we need an HACS add on or a script to do something like changing the brightness of all lights currently on is a massive UX smell.

Also, “variables”—a concept that has been part of programming since the 1950s, a concept so tightly integrated into computing that almost all laypeople understand it conceptually—are for some incomprehensible reason called “Helpers”, and values are stored as strings!! Booleans are called Toggles in the Add Helper menu, but their Entity type is input_boolean (please correct me if my info is out of date).

Every system has to grapple with these kinds of architectural decisions, so friction is understandable in 2019, tolerable in 2020, and a nightmare beyond that. The entire taxonomy is insane, and so deeply unintuitive it’s like it was designed to be confusing. Devices and Entities being distinct, Automations and Scripts being distinct. Logs and Logbook being distinct. Murky info about global variables and script scope. Core and OS are separate images. These kinds of things, even when intuitively named and explained, are not for laypeople, and laypeople don’t care to know them. But the concepts are required understanding if one wants to customize their setup.

All of this is surmountable for a person with the time and resources. And as DIY people we have some time we like to dedicate to HA. But at least for me, HA has killed 100% of the joy of home automation because of the timesuck caused by the most menial of tasks. And it is very very frustrating to see resources being poured into things like Voice Assistants and Shopping Lists, when there are endless quality-of-life improvements just chilling in github issues.

This is not a commercial product, but it is being marketed as one. I pay for Nabu Casa, which works when it feels like working and doesn’t other times. The mobile app, the desktop app, and the browser webapp have UI inconsistencies in the damn dashboard. The mobile app doesn’t work with a self-signed cert. Some integrations refuse to start when they’re not in the mood.

Many people replying saying “my updates take 5 minutes”. Sure, when they work seamlessly. But have you never had a Core update not agree with an OS update? God forbid both get too far out of date…And if you choose to update both upon release, you are basically beta testing and hoping for the best, because the team is very aggressive with their releases.

The entire thing needs to be rethought and overhauled. It’s an unintuitive nightmare. But it’s far too late for that. Moreover, things are currently as bad as they are because of prior rethinking and overhauling. It’s just bad software. Yes, all software is bad. But HA is painfully bad. My opinion.

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You are kidding right? Point me in the direction of an another home automation service that is as robust as HA, where your cost is less than $100 a year.

What is your end goal?

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If you’re going to cherry pick a quote just to object about the quote, while ignoring the broad sentiment of my comments, then my end goal is to annoy you specifically.

Then I am happy to assist in your endeavor!

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The fact you mention HACs or a script to change the brightness for a group of lights clearly shows anger has clouded your previous programming abilities.

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try again.

My bad, you meant across every brand, every protocol and the ability to bypass proprietary APIs…

Please move on, your opinion is noted!

I have had a career writing software for over 20 years.

Wow 20 years and still can’t figure out how to use YAML, must be the most difficult code ever, not sure how i can be doing it for so long , so easy, i must be a genius.

The fact that we need an HACS add on or a script to do something like changing the brightness of all lights currently on is a massive UX smell.

Really you need a add-on or script to change the light brightness, i have been doing wrong all this time

HA has killed 100% of the joy of home automation

Where , how ???, so my joy is misguided ?

any people replying saying “my updates take 5 minutes”. Sure, when they work seamlessly. But have you never had a Core update not agree with an OS update?

On your 20 years of experience, sure you know how to read an error message

It’s just bad software. Yes, all software is bad. But HA is painfully bad. My opinion.

estimated one million users using HAS are so dumb, can you teach us how to do it right, im sure that a pro coder like yourself had a better option for all of us
, if you say all software is bad i guess you also choose a wrong job developing software, or you’re simply bad at it

please master, share your work developing software better than Homeassistant so we all can praise your.

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This makes me laugh. There are about half a million active installations who share statistics, so there must be many more seeing a lot of users are privacy minded. Even IF you know about 500 people complaining, which you cannot know, that is less that one in thousand. I’d say there wouldn’t even be close to that many installations if this products is anywhere near as bad as you make it out to be. So I guess you are pretty unique and not representing any kind of majority.

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Here’s a couple quotes from a thread where some random user that’s definitely not you recognizes the complexity issues I’m speaking of. Maybe you should read it.

You do realize you have the opportunity to create your own home automation software without all these apparent downfalls?

No way that’s currently possible :rofl:

All of you blind defenders of this hellish system are hilariously ignorant, and are making the software worse by accepting it as it is.

sorry master, im so sorry please show us the correct way, !you are the best coder in the world please show us the way to enlightenment

“Like it or leave it”. Signs of a healthy community mindset.

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Thank you my child. Start by reading the holy words of my comments in this thread (King James version). The master knows you have not read them thoroughly.

You see, “currently on” modifies “all lights”. Get it yet? I want to take all the lights that are currently in an on state (which is a subset of all the lights), and change the brightness of only those

A foolish person is one who believes he is always right. (William Shakespeare)

Thank you my child. Start by reading the holy words of my comments in this thread (King James version). The master knows you have not read them thoroughly.

sorry you got me there, you are not a master you are a god a foolish god

Yes sir, for some ignorance is bliss🤪

Awe come on I obviously need assistance

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Well, this sure has been a waste of time. One thing I learned today is that HA may not be the software we need, but it sure is the software this community deserves. Good luck with your blissful ignorance, and may your capacity for discourse and reading comprehension grow with the complexity of HA. :v:

noooooo master don’t leave what we are going to do without you. please dont go

Yep, that is me. But there’s so much you can do without touching yaml or jinja nowadays… It is fully up to the user how complex they want to make it. Plus that is all standard yaml and jinja. The HA team cannot change either language, nor does it have anything to do with breaking updates.