Launched: Data Science Portal


#84

It has nothing to do with this component or how it was released. That is irrelevant.

As @mf_social has pointed out it has to do with the interaction between the founder, the developers, and the user community. Lots of anger, frustration, resentment, and general unhappiness in all related parties.

That is what leads to people eventually saying “[email protected] it” and moving on. That moving on means the end for Home Assistant.

We should not be happy we have a project founder who is so frustrated to rant like he did on Twitter.

We should not be happy the developers feel under appreciated.

We should not be happy we have users that feel communication is poor.

None of this is good for the project.


#85

Just a hunch at this time @cgtobi, and agreeing with other long time members here. The cloud option and priority being given towards hass.io is similar to what I’ve seen with other open source projects. I don’t see hass.io as a “convenient way to run Home Assistant” to be honest, I see it as appealing to a different primary audience, a change in direction. There’s a few signs recently to support my theory I feel. Don’t get me wrong, I love this project, and I have nothing but the upmost respect for those who have contributed.


#86

If its made easier, then the audience will be larger. HA has outgrown its original beginnings as a tech only solution i believe and is appealing to a much larger audience now
As for the doomsayers saying the project will end because of this, what rubbish.


#87

I can’t understand where the quick start guide implied that Hass.io would be the only solution. Fair enough, I read it and thought, hm, easy start for the docker users but not for me. But I just went ahead and had a working environment 30 minutes later. I never really had the impression that it would only work with Hass.io. But anyway, instead of discussing this nuance we should rather go out and play with it. That would make much more sense. :wink:


#88

Absolutely! I’d rather have more contributers than users though, and that’s what open source is about.


#89

More users does in theory mean more contributors.
As mentioned many times before, those of us who are not developers can and should contribute support and assist in the documentation as our part of the project.


#90

There’s a massive catch 22 there at the moment though - can’t contribute to the documentation if you don’t know how to do it yourself. Can’t work out how to do it yourself if nobody puts the time in to documenting new features.

Once somebody gets a head start, then we can jump in and make the docs a bit more user friendly - but that head start has to come from the devs because they’re the only people who know how it works when it’s brand new :slight_smile:


#91

I think the project could be heading towards a differnet audience now. Those who are willing to pay, rather than contribute.


#92

@mf_social
But @cgtobi has already made that start on how to setup based on his setup, thats where it starts. People taking the initiative and having a play and then reporting the results is their contribution.
@Sitrate
See i don’t. Take the cloud part, there are ways to do it without paying. there are numerous threads on setting up.
Many people made themselves vocal in not willing to pay and that’s fine but for some the paying part is just easier. Again more choice larger audience


#93

I was being more general, in response to a more general philosophical point that you made.

My point being that if you teach a man to fish, he can feed his family.

If you develop a new type of automatic fishing rod that the man can use to feed the whole village but cba to tell anyone how to use it, it wont get used and the man sticks to just feeding his family whilst the rest of the village starves.

Tell him how to use it, he writes a decent instruction manual complete with his own experiences on refined productivity for the rest of the men of the village to use it in shifts, village becomes a prosperous city.

/philospophy

Disclaimer: The use of the word ‘man’ in this random philosphical dreamscape is in no way meant to be sexist, and can be replaced with woman/non-binary-human/potato if that suits you better. The reason for inclusion of the word man is in reference to the old adage only and does not reflect my views on gender equality


#94

Someone above said

“hassio is build for the less experienced users that are less able to program.”

This is true. I am less able to program, because I am a Network engineer, not a programmer. So, programming wise, I am barely able to get by. Hassio takes care of that need for me.

Someone above ALSO said:

“hass is grown because of the more experienced users that are able to program.”

This only partially true. Since I am not a programmer, and hassio doesn’t require me to be, I spend HOURS per week tweaking, improving increasing my hassio installation. Also, I have convinced four of my smart home friends to install and configure hassio BECAUSE they do not have to be programmers (which they are not). Maybe there is a way to determine the number of home assistant users and the number of hassio users, I don’t know. BUT if there were a way to do that, I would expect that many more people run hassio than run homeassistant. I may be wrong, but it would be good to know.

I would close my comment by saying this…if home assistant is for programmers and hassio is not, and someone like @frenck writes an addon for HASSIO users, then all you programmers who are bitching can just stop your bitching and PROVE you are programmers; you know, do what programmers do. I am not sure it is profitable to throw rocks at a person who is doing something for free, because that person MAY just stop contributing at all. If you lose the hassio community, there will be no way this platform could ever go mainstream, because non-programmers would never even try it.


#95

HAHA, had to giggle at the disclaimer.


#96

He’s not talking about you and your mates working on your own devices, he’s talking about people contributing code to homeassistant so that you and your mates have devices to play with.

Also, nobody here is ‘throwing rocks’, they raised a genuine concern about a project that is very very close to their hearts because of the documentation that was linked to originally suggesting that their favourite home automation platform was about to begin a spiral down the sewage system. Anybody who has come to this thread 24 hours or more after it’s inception cannot see it because it has since been fixed, but the concern was very real and was raised. Then all of a sudden words like ‘attacked’ and ‘throwing rocks’ started getting used and we were told we were the ones overreacting. We were in fact ‘reacting’ to what had been posted, which it later turned out to be incorrect.

Finally, regarding your expectation that more people use hassio, according to a very non-scientific poll going on on facebook (completely unrelated to this, but coincidentally timed)…

95 people responded:

  • 64 Homeassistant/hassbian
  • 30 Hassio
  • 1 ‘Other’ (god knows what that is!!)

So more than double not on hassio from that sample :slight_smile:


#97

Thought I’d better be careful, apparently I’m being misread a lot the last couple of days :wink:


#98

thats the sole OpenHAB user who is confused to where they are


#99

FWIW, it took me about 30 minutes to build a standalone, Docker-based version of this that works for my vanilla HASS:

It can be done.


#100

Any chance of a write up on the process. would possibly help people running docker


#101

Ok, fair enough. TBH, I don’t understand why everyone is not running hassio as opposed to home assistant, however, admittedly that is probably due to not being a programmer. Can you help me understand why everyone does not run hassio? FWIW, I am running my hassio on top of Ubuntu 18.04. I’m just not familiar enough with the differences between hassio and home assistant to know what I myself might be “missing”.

Oh, and I do accept your disclaimer about the FB response being unscientific…I don’t ever use FB, nor do most of my colleagues, except to be able to access information you can’t access any other way. So, I didn’t see, nor would likely ever see the poll. Don’t even have FB installed on my phone, and only log into it about once a month.The ratio could be still correct…or it could be wrong. Who knows (can you tell how I feel about FB? :grinning:)

Lastly, I’m just grateful to all of the people who contribute to and develop the platform. I really enjoy playing with it, and seeing what I can make it do. The entire contributing community are a great group of folks.


#102

Rob, I’m getting a DB auth error:

YAML tag !include_dir_named is not supported
Successfully connected to database mysql://hassmaria:***@core-mariadb/homeassistant
Error with query: 
            SELECT entity_id
            FROM states
            GROUP BY entity_id
            
(_mysql_exceptions.OperationalError) (2006, "Host 'addon_a0d7b954_jupyterlablite.hassio' is not allowed to connect to this MariaDB server") (Background on this error at: http://sqlalche.me/e/e3q8)

I used my HA login when I started the browser


#103

hass.io is a wonderful thing in that it provides so much out of the box. I’m a developer and want full control over my OS, my Docker stack, etc., so I chose to go the route of “vanilla” HASS. It isn’t better or worse; it just fits my style better.