Leaving Home Assistant, not worth the headaches!

Of course, you’re right. I don’t want to sound like I’m condoning complaining!

My only point was that we can learn from these outbursts, rather than dismiss them. Having worked in a number of customer service fields, I always try to (politely) tell someone when I’ve had a bad experience and plan to go elsewhere. It’s really doing them a favor. Whether they choose to listen and learn from my experience or not is their problem.

Yes, I’ve only been here three months. I’m trying to learn, and maybe some day I’ll be able to contribute. I see some great stuff, and everyone’s been very helpful whenever I’ve asked.

But it’s been slow going. I often hit roadblocks where things aren’t documented well or everyone seems to assume I should have been born knowing everything they’ve learned over the past three (or however many) years. I get that everyone’s busy improving the product, but a product that only an elite few can figure out how to use isn’t the goal.

I understand that it’s a difficult balance to strike. You want to keep moving forward on development, but still be welcoming to newcomers. Overall it looks to me like things are going pretty well. But there’s still value in looking back and remembering what it’s like to be a newbie from time to time.


I expect that concept to be explained to them, not that the user be attacked. Back when I was a lurker here I just assumed it was because home automation attracted the less socially-inclined, but now I see there are a lot of kind users, they just aren’t often the more prolific posters.

Relatedly, I’d just like to mention how often I see the “volunteer” card played like it’s some kind of immunity. Being a volunteer might excuse some things, like lack of polish, or missed delivery dates, or breaking changes, but it doesn’t excuse you from realities like “berating users isn’t how you foster a thriving community around your project”.


What concept is OP requesting to be explained? He is complaining and leaving without asking for help. It seems like your gripes are aimed outside this thread, which is a whole different issue.

My comments are purely directed towards the monthly “Home assistant is too hard, I give up, breaking changes are bad posts”. It’s draining. These posts would be more palatable if the users didn’t take the “woe is me” approach. Everyone here has had issues with this software and ran into road blocks, I chose to solve my issues by supporting others which helped me learn. That type of approach helps the community and helps yourself. How are you doing this? By complaining?


??? You were replying to CaptTom’s post, who was seconding my post. If you remember, CaptTom said

Whether you see it or not, there is an undercurrent of elitism and hostility toward newbies here which tarnishes an otherwise fantastic project.

Ps. Is the troll winning?

1 Like

Are we really arguing forum semantics now? You don’t think:

(emphasis CaptTom’s)

Is a little odd in a vacuum?

Ps. I won’t be replying anymore in this thread. I think it’s devolved far enough. No hard feelings though if I see you on another post.


There’s a little community where a few neighbors got together to convert an unused patch of land into a children’s park. A great deal of effort was invested to transform nothing into something. They charge no entrance fee and welcome all volunteers to help run and improve the park. Most people enjoy the community spirit and contribute whatever they can, small or large, to keep the park running.

  • Sometimes the swing set is unavailable because it’s being painted, repaired, or expanded.
  • The slide didn’t survive its first winter and had to be completely rebuilt.
  • The signage, explaining the park’s rules, isn’t always kept up to date.
  • The solar-electric lighting doesn’t always last the entire night.

For the people who had rolled up their sleeves, to turn nothing into something, these were just additions to their to-do list. They’ll eventually get done and it’s all part of their labor of love.

One new neighbor pitched in to improve the lighting. Another took time to paint new signs. Yet another, a civil engineer, loved the simple task of building an elegant new slide. It became the park’s centerpiece and loved by children of all ages.

Not all neighbors were equally pleased with the park’s problems. They didn’t appreciate being inconvenienced, especially the time the swing set was closed for painting. They exclaimed “Why wasn’t it done at night?”

They grumbled the park wasn’t like the one over in Anytown. Anytown’s property taxes were substantially higher, and they charged an entrance fee, and they made few improvements, but at least their swing set was always available and the slide never collapsed.

The people who had worked hard for many years suggested that the park could be almost anything you wanted it to be but it required a personal contribution of time and effort. Displeased neighbors scoffed at the idea. “I’ve never used a hammer in my life! I wouldn’t know which end to use!” To which they were suggested to pick up a broom and sweep the walkways or to supervise the children. The suggestion was met with equal disdain.

  • “Who has time for that? I have a real job.”
  • “I sweep my own walkway and that’s enough for me, thank you very much.”
  • “Why don’t you charge an admission fee and hire people to run your little park?”

Given that the park’s very existence was due to the collective efforts of volunteers, there wasn’t much the unhappy neighbors could offer except complaints. For all those who couldn’t paint, saw, sweep, mow, or even just supervise the kids playing in the park, they were recommended to use Anytown’s park.

This suggestion only upset them even more. Now they felt they were being driven away. The volunteers were accused of being hammer-swinging exclusionists. They insisted their complaints were equally valuable contributions. It takes mental effort to devise complaints. All the volunteers should heed their complaints otherwise tens, hundreds, even thousands of neighbors would leave the park. Perhaps the problem is that the volunteers lacked the mental capacity to understand their complaints.

Meanwhile, in Anytown, park officials were carefully monitoring the situation at the community-run park. They were impressed with its facilities and concerned by the migration of their park users to the community park. Each patron they lost was a potential new volunteer for improving the community park and making it an even greater attraction.

They were even more concerned by the influx of new users to their park who seemed to be hard to please and complained endlessly.

  • “Why is the entrance fee so high?”
  • “Why are there so few improvements?”
  • “This slide sucks. Have you seen the other one? Wow! Now that’s a slide!”
  • “You call this a lawn? The grass is greener in the other park!”

I am/was a newbie 7 months ago when I started with HA (which in turn I had to learn basic linux, basic python, yaml and all that stuff). I work with children not with computers. However I do not think this forum is condescending towards newbies. I always got proper help and as some of you might have seen I have set up a really comprehensive lovelace setup. All of that with the amazing help of this community. Though I have to admit that I am the kind of person that only asks for help if I really can’t find it any other way.

But tbh this community is one of the most friendly communities I have seen in a long time.


I second that, and imho it’s not only towards newbies - I presume that some members just think (or act as) they are clever/know more/whatever else and therefore have the right to say to that person something that isn’t necessary offending, but meant to underline/emphasise in some form that difference.

I know it’s difficult to withstand the seduction by fame as it’s part of our human nature.
I by no means say the way the OP decided to ‘leave’ HA is the right one or something nor I fully support his reasoning/any form of profanity/trolling.

I fully understand how hard it is to contribute to a project like this and get sometimes blame instead of praise and I personally try to keep it as calm and polite as possible when dealing with HA issues.
On the other hand, all volunteers should be aware of this side of things and nobody forced them to join in and carry on in spite of various negative issues related to the process here.

So it’s their choice, they should know about that and they are most likely happy with such a trade-off I presume.

That’s true. It’s all about the balance between how much effort it takes to get help and the level of frustration from unpleasant responses not necessarily caused by that person.

It IS a great project and it is possible to keep it evolving, and constant adjustments are part of it. It’s very naive to think that ALL the HA dev do IS right, they MUST adhere to their users and lack of a proper mechanism of doing that (which I witnessed personally) is a serious roadblock. After all, it’s HA for users, not users for HA, and if they are not happy about it, it’ll eventually die, simple enough.

Complicated it is. But any one-sided judgement without taking into account nature of projects like this and complexity of devs-users interaction carries a real risk of failure.
I don’t want this project to fail, so hope some lessons will be learnt.


I have to say that as someone with very little technical know how I have found this community as well as the Reddit and discord communities for HA to be very helpful (although I do find myself getting frustrated on the discord chat more than any). But this is definitely a beta experience you have to be willing to look for answers. People will help you, but no one is going to hold your hand. You have to be willing to break things so you can figure out how to fix them.


Ok, let me stop everyone here, I didn’t mean to Troll the site, and you guys are right, it was a rant. I was super frustrated and at a breaking point.

For the record I am not a nube. I have been using home assistant for probably around a year now. I haven’t joined or posted anything as I have been able to figure most everything out for myself. I think my first download was 0.57. I am able to work through most of this because I am a systems engineering in aerospace and have written level A software for aircraft. Not bragging, just saying.

I guess I was frustrated because someone said stick with stable releases, I have seen no way to determine what this is, there are only major and minor releases? This is just a suggestion for the community, but you should differentiate between stable and beta releases. The release I mentioned was downloaded as part of the hassio instructions download right from the hassio website. I had no intention of updating, but had to due to a power surge issue (I know my bone head move for not surge protection this). So I figured maybe clean stuff up a bit and start from scratch with the latest and greatest. Also, odd thing is I restored from a full backup that was fully working, but the restore did not work (can’t quite figure that out).

Anyway sorry I ranted, I usually don’t do such things, but as I said was so frustrated I couldn’t see straight anymore. Whomever said that you guys shouldn’t respond to me was right on the money.



The answer to that is unknown. Every version has it’s own flavor of ‘issues’. I find, if you have a version that works with everything you have, that should be considered stable. For me, the current version is stable. But I’m seeing tons of issues with node red and other things on the forums. I don’t use those, so to me, this version is stable. :man_shrugging:

Anyways, if you wan’t to save yourself some headaches, you can downgrade through CLI to the version that was working for you before.

To me that answer is covered in the rigger of the per-release testing. for beta release, usually the release group is controlled in size and the systems that are tested are reported to the developers, usually to ensure that beta candidates have the the ability to use the new functionality or fixes under test. And those participating in the beta are notified that this is a potentially unstable release and could result in loss of system or functionality, so many people who participate in beta testing do so on backup systems and so forth.

I was able to update my Hass.io to a beta only when I manually joined the Beta channel so I was well aware of the consequences.
Have no idea why you are talking about betas…

Speaking about “stable” versions, at some point I started to read release notes (especially paying attention to breaking changes) and blog to see if there are many unhappy users fighting with a new version. And I always make a backup of my SD card. That makes the whole process pretty safe and manageable.

Read the posts above about sticking to a “stable” release, many of these releases to me do not conform to what I would consider “stable”. As a note, I always do read the release notes for the package prior to install. Also as I mentioned in my post, I did not wish to upgrade to a new version, I did as a result of a power surge issue.

got it. well, yes, some of HA releases were a huge disaster… but again, read notes and make a backup. or stick to a version that you happy with. it’s your choice, really…
and you can install whatever release you want, not necessary the latest one

Actually that is a good point and didn’t think about it at the time, is there an instruction set for unzipping them into a flashable (ie ISO image or something similar) format for putting on a microdrive?

I only know that you can add --version=pref_version when issuing hassio ha update and you’ll get exactly that.
I think it simply downloads the image from a known server and then uses it as it’s a docker image or something.

Try searching/asking in the forum/discord, believe you are not the first and only one who wanted to know that :wink:

That sounds expensive.

Do, you happen to know if you can go backwards with this, for example download the latest and specify a version to downgrade to. I had found the site that contains all the hassio releases in .zip, didn’t download and unload maybe they are .iso images inside the zip.

fyi, here’s a list of the old hassio builds to mount