I’ve been working pretty hard to not incorporate cloud products for this reason but I know that many here do and reasonably so.
I did want to make one note concerning often overlooked alternatives to the nest smoke detectors - professional smoke and CO detectors with A / C relays. You can get data directly from the smoke detector and in some cases remotely silence them. They typically sell for around $60 US depending on brand and model and the outputs go nicely with any I/O interface board for inclusion with Home Assistant.
Hotels have been using these for years and they are cheaper than Nest detectors. One added bonus is since these are usually used in commercial / industrial settings, you can switch out the detector if you start getting false positives for very little money.
The downside is that they aren’t wireless and will require running a couple of data lines to the smoke detectors OR installing a wireless adapter behind them.
Just to add some color to the Google sympathy issue. I just went through a similiar thing with another open source project. An EXTREMELY popular blogging tool called Open Live Writer just got COMPLETELY HOSED when Google announced that they were shutting down an API that the program used for posting pictures on Blogger (another google platform). There was a HUGE uproar and even google engineers weighed in on the thread and nothing changed. The API was shut down and the program no longer works with Blogger.
There was a big outcry and these people complaining were ACTUAL BLOGGERS so the effective reach was even greater. Still no action. I personally switched from Blogger to Wordpress because of it.
So I’m sad that google is shutting down community access APIs all over the place and pessimistic that they will reverse course on the NEST Api.
What’s craziest about this whole thing is that from my time seeing posts on Reddit, here and elsewhere, it seems that a large number of the Nest thermostats were purchased “because they look nice”. Wonderfully functional Z-wave and WiFi units are passed over because, well, they look like thermostats. People are so obsessed about form over function that they’re willing to spend $100 more on a thermostat than needed, and end up here, where one of the main functions they utilized is being taken away because they bought a device that can have it taken away. Meanwhile Z-wave/WiFi units sit on store shelves, which is a shame since they’re 100% locally controllable and physically unable for anyone else to ever take that away. And all because Nest look shiny.
With all of this said, does anyone out there have any recommendations on a Z-Wave thermostat? I’ve got a two stage heat pump with Aux-heat and AC. Honestly don’t really care about replicating many of the Nest features although I’m sure it can be done with some automation. I’m more interested about continuing the ability to set “home” and “away” temps based on occupancy using presence. Already have the automation in place. Would just need to update it when a new thermostat is in place.
Well, here in The Netherlands, the situation is somewhat different i guess.
Most of our heating systems are controlled using modulation instead of on/off. This technique is supposed to be more energy efficient than on/off. In my case my heating system is controlled through OpenTherm which also uses modulation. Unfortunatly Smart Thermostats that can control heating systems in this manner are hard to find.
On one side there are the classic thermostat companies that build decent hardware but lousy software and on the other side there is Nest and Tado. Tado is quite good but lacks a official API. Nest is the only thermostat that has decent hardware, opentherm support and a official API. So the choice is somewhat limited here
I usually avoid anything that smells like Google like the plague, but because of above arguments i was tricked into buying a Nest thermostat.
There’s a similar discussion (about the termination of Nest’s API) on the openHAB community forum. Someone there suggested this thermostat as an inexpensive substitute with support for heat/AC/multi-stage. About US$85.
I’ve been using a HAI Omnistat/2 RC-2000 for almost 10 years. Bought it used from eBay. Wrote my own driver for it and it communicates via RS-232 (although a zwave version is available). It has an extensive API but the silly thing doesn’t report any manual changes you make (like adjusting the temperature) so the driver has to continuously poll it for status. Anyway, I don’t imagine too many hobbyists choose this one anymore but there it is.
Proliphix made two ‘network’ thermostats (Wi-Fi) but has discontinued them (Home Assistant supports them). They still offer their higher-end IMT550c/w which is even available in a wired Ethernet version. Apparently its API is similar to the one used by the discontinued models. Like the HAI Omnistat this thing still commands a high price even for used ones.
EDIT
I just noticed that @silvrr recommended the same zwave thermostat here:
I would frame this as an opportunity for other companies to put more (any) effort into the design of their smart thermostats, as opposed to implying that anyone who wants their house to look nice is inherently shallow, as you seem to be doing. I’ve seen “houses” where people have replaced walls with blue plastic tarps. I don’t think those people are necessarily any less shallow than people who maintain homes with a little more curb appeal…
I can’t imagine that Google shutting out their competitors isn’t going to force their competitors to say “ok, fine, our products work everywhere but in the google ecosystem.” In the end either Google strikes a deal with the bigger manufacturers to continue with some kind of special API or they’ll suffer the backlash of manufacturers. This seems to me as a very arrogant move. It’s like they don’t know that Amazon still holds the market on voice assistants. Do you really want to piss off Amazon right now?
I’d be willing to bet that there’ll be a pay-to-play service available to them that mostly just squeezes out the little guy.
Google is betting the consumer backlash will force the other manufacturers to license, much like Toyota is finally adding Android Auto to its vehicles due to consumer demand.
Is Google advertising it as Alexa compatible or is Amazon advertising it that way?
The Nest page says specifically that the “Works with Nest” is winding down.
People who bought a nest based on nest advertising are entitled to have it work as advertised. I have never looked in detail at nests advertising because it is not something I seriously considered buying.
However the fact that Google have bought nest didn’t mean they have no ongoing obligation to nest customers.
Unfortunately it means they only have obligation to those who bought after the sale.
I am one of those that received a Pebble watch bought shortly before Fitbit bought them. Unfortunately it died during what would have been the warranty period but that was nullified by the Fitbit purchase. I had to scrap the watch.
“Our advice (as always): buy devices that communicate locally.”
Something I’ve always wanted, and if this is truly the advice…
on the Components page of the HA.io website should be a checkbox to filter down to ONLY components that communicate locally, Local Poll & Push.
Just my wish to get to a 100% home-assistant (locally driven) solution.
