[On Hold] Deprecating Home Assistant Supervised on generic Linux

@Silicon_Avatar - thank you for the very thoughtful response, really appreciate it! I consider myself a power user, I am using docker/python/venv on my day to day job, so I do understand the concepts. I don’t really understand HA yet, I will check the links you mentioned. When I said I don’t want to learn all the inner workings of HA, it is because I don’t want to spend the time in doing that, but concentrate on building on top of it.

To give an very recent example: I was trying to follow this guide to install an add-on (I’d say a pretty basic thing to do). However, there’s no Supervisor panel in my (venv based) direct on rasbian install. Now, to do a simple task, I need to understand what to do (that’s how I came to see this thread), as there is no link to any documentation: “If you installed Home Assistant using any other method then you cannot use add-ons (but you can achieve the same result manually).” - very helpful, I’d like to see a link to how to “achieve the same result manually”.

This is just the latest in a set of issues I ran into and I had a really hard time finding any documentation. It might be me, but trust me, I used dozens (hundreds?) of open source projects. Some are better, some are worse. HA might have been well documented at some point, but given the super messy installation options snafu, I think documentation needs some love.

Meanwhile, I’ll go searching for answers in some other place, but frustrated by having to go through this process every few days.

Take look here https://community.home-assistant.io/c/community-guides/51

Understood. That’s definitely the goal! I think at this point in the project, that’s true except when you get into troubleshooting why things don’t work (which can unfortunately be often, depending on the complexity of what you’re trying to achieve).
Thankfully a lot of really great content/information exists on the forum, just be careful when searching that the information isnt too outdated. HA development moves at a fast pace so information can become outdated quickly.

This is the reason most of us don’t recommend blindly following guides online (outside of the official website) or youtube tutorials, since all too often they lead people down the wrong path when things don’t work.
The Community Guides section of the forum is a great place to learn more about the install methods, and has (usually) up-to-date information.

Good example. The short answer would be to install the software/program on the bare metal of your machine or as docker containers if you have the option.
For example I run some non-addon containers in docker with the image obtained from somewhere generic like LinuxServer, some of which (like ombi) have HA integrations to talk to it.
So if, for example, you didnt or couldn’t use the deCONZ addon, you could run the marthoc container (avilable on docker hub), or install it right on your server, and then you could configure HA to talk to it (getting the same end result as running the addon version).
HOWEVER if you run things like this, you loose some addon specific things like ingress. That’s just not available unless you run it as an addon.

What's ingress?

Introduced in 0.92 (?), ingress is a way of accessing the web based configurations, or webpages, hosted by addons. It used to be that the supervisor would let you re-map the addon’s port 80 to a new port, then you would use the new port to access the addon’s web page. For example you’re HomeAssistant interface may be http://My.IP:8123 and the deCONZ config page would be http://My.IP:8951.
Ingress acts as a nginx proxy server to let those pages be hosted as subdomains. This is great for external access, since you no longer need to forward all those other ports as well in your router. And the ingress pages are protected via your HA authentication, so you can only access them after logging in.
You can acomplish a similar thing running your own nginx proxy server, and their might even be a way to leverage the HA auth system (maybe?), but it would be all manual work you have to do and research. Running supervised HA means ingress is built in and enabled with 1 button press.

Introducing Hass.io Ingress - Home Assistant

One of the main struggles in documentation is the dev cycle. It sounds like an excuse (and pretty much is) but keeping up with all the scattered documentation when things can change very dramatically very quickly is a weak spot here that pretty much all users and devs agree needs some love. All of the documentation is hosted from github though, so every page has an “edit” button. ALL community members are encouraged to use this to submit PRs to fix documentation problems when found.

I hope you can stick with it without too much more frustration, as the platform is super powerful already, and only getting better every 3(ish) weeks.

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TBH the community guides are not of major consolation to me. I’m sitting on Ubuntu waiting to migrate to Debian, but waiting for the new installer and documentation about it as teased by Frenck. If I’m going to go through all the work to migrate, I’m going to do it the official-official way…

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There is plenty of other documentation there though.

@nickrout thanks for the pointer, but https://community.home-assistant.io/c/community-guides/51 does not seem to link to anything but the main page for me…

Also, this is in the same vein, CYA style: “Please note, guides provided in this section may be outdated/broken and are not supported by Home Assistant. Use these at your own risk.”

Thanks for all the help, I don’t mean to be ungrateful.
I have found an (outdated, but usable) guide on how to install appdaemon here: Installing AppDaemon on Ubuntu with virtualenv

(and sorry for hijacking this thread, if it could be more than it already is :slight_smile: )

I just got done migrating from HA OS to HA Core in Docker. I don’t know what all the fuss is about supervised. I’m loving the stripped down experience. I’m also really enjoying managing the docker environment in my own. If you can figure out how to get supervised running on your own OS, then why not just run core in docker?

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Because it’s honestly not as nice of an experience and has less features (without having to work for it), even for someone capable of running it as just core with docker addons. Ingress it just nice. Can I do it myself with nginx? Yes, I do that for all my non-ingress stuff, but ingress is just nice. Snapshots are nice. Not having to manage updating the OS, packages, Python etc is just “nice”.
I can do all of that myself if needed, but when I come home from work I don’t want to be doing more work. There’s nothing that running Core would make easier (for me), but there are plenty of things that running HassOS or supervised install does make easier (for me). But YMMV, so to each their own.

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The new installer whatever it may be will give you the same result - Supervised on Debian 10, so there is no real point in waiting if you want to move. The guidelines are clear, they won’t change. Follow ADR-0014 - Install vanilla Debian 10, the dependencies and the install script.

If you are already running Supervised on Ubuntu, take a snapshot, install Debian, dependencies and the script, restore your snapshot. I say this will all honesty - if you can copy/paste and follow instruction, it will take you less than 1hr to completely migrate. I can do it about 30mins start to finish now as I’ve done it so many times writing and testing my guides. It’s really very easy, and fast.

If you aren’t confident in getting it right, swap out your OS drive for a fresh one, that way if you make a mistake, you can pop your Ubuntu drive back in and you’re up and running again.

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I subscribe to nabu casa so don’t need to fiddle with ngnix. That definitely makes it easier. I will miss easily getting to the config files through ingress, but all my automations are in node-red now so I don’t mess with yaml all that much anymore. Plus I can get to them in a pinch through VPN and VNC on my phone.

I’m only a few hours in. I may change my mind the first time I bring all down doing something I shouldn’t do. So far I’m digging it.

I will say, it’s not like supervised was a cake walk either. At least in HA OS, I managed to crash and burn a few times over the year I ran it doing what I think was normal stuff like upgrading, etc. Only when it went down it took my whole pi with it. I’m kind of looking forward to the next crash, since bringing one container back up is so easy. I suppose its about the same with supervised on Linux?

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I’m not worried about doing it right, but wondering why there is a new install script and documentation coming if the one we have now does everything right?

Do you think you will end up with some different version of Supervised?

I would assume instead of running a script, it may pull a container like installing an add-on, I am likely completely wrong. The installation steps will change, the end result won’t.

I have no idea. If I knew, I’d know what to do.

Who knows… it may even install the dependencies etc. I thought frenck said it was going to be easier and more automated… I doubt the end result will be any different. Who knows…

Yes, who knows. I don’t pretend to know all the moving parts well enough to say how significant it will be… But I don’t want any more little red messages telling me I’m doing anything wrong ;-).

I just found about this TODAY, Sept 9, 2020. Why, you ask? Because I had everything set up and all my automations working BEAUTIFULLY after spending countless hours LEARNING this crap. Why would I frequent the forums when I have little to issues? Then again, I’m hardly shocked that humans do things without considering THE consequences or inconvenience this would cause their fellow man. Way to go…:-1:t2:

Perhaps you need to read the post and note that the deprecation has been put on hold. ie: not getting deprecated. There’s no need to worry

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Really not sure what you are going on about. Supervised install survives. In fact the official installer script had seven commits in August and two in September so far.

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Hmm, I see this thread is now serving as a reading comprehension test.

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Not getting deprecated…yet.