I would like to change my manual radiator vales to smart TRV. Those will be integrated Home Assistant and also to Apple Home via Home Assistant. With that said, I already check the market. I found Tuya and Moes which are affordable when it is compared to others. How is your experience with these brands.
My other options are Honeywell and Aqara. I have already devices from Aqara but it is listed €55 per TRV in the other hand Honeywell HR27 is €36. (For honeywell it is saying in the listing no app required, not sure if it does not support remote connection or it is just an option).
What is the power supply? (240V / 110V / 12V/ battery or power to the rads?)
What protocols do you prefer? (WLAN/ Zigbee/ Z-Wave/ Matter…)
What type of (presumably wet) heating do you have? (might impact the integration with a thermostat)
What type of radiator check valves do you have?
I’d also suggest searching for the brands you list on the forum, and even more importantly, the HA integration list (e.g. Tuya does not have positive history with HA but can be made to work). Reward brands that work with HA like Aquara.
Sadly, there are some “what is best” posts that rapidly don’t help as the conversation heads off in another direction for another country.
Thanks for your answer. Yes you are totally right.
I am living in EU but using Chinese devices as well from Aqara.
220V
To be honest not sure. It could be Zigbee or WLAN. If one is better than another please let me know. (Back story: I have already Aqara Hub however if I need to add more zigbee devices I am planning to get Sonoff Zigbee dongle).
Yes, it is wet. Just causal radiator system with hot water which is heated by natural gas.
At the moment valves are manual. Not even RTV. I have already ordered RTV valves to see if I can change those. Than to install smart RTV, it is just changing “Cap” as I see.
Honeywell HR27 seems affordable. At least known brand abd aroung €36. But I am not sure if it can be connected to app and to Home assistant. In the listing, it only says all settings can be done from the RTV. And about Aqara, I am using their switch etc. I admit that they are good however not sure it would worth €50ish per RTV while there are options at €30ish. At the end they are both Chinese.
And may be side question which is not related but about sharing data and security: As long as they are controlled from HA, there is no data exchange over cloud right? No matter HA integration is done (via cloud service). I am newbie at HA. So, at least I want to understand background just a bit.
If the valves need to be battery operated, then Zigbee uses a LOT LESS energy in RF transmission then WLAN. There are very few WLAN battery devices as they need to be big (lots of AA) and/or rechargeable.
Most TRV valve actuators use either a small motor or a wax disc to operate the valve (heater expands wax, pushes a piston, pushes the valve closed) - both need energy.
TRVs tend to use a “fairly standard” brass valve head with a small pin that gets pushed in. I’ve seen mechanical TRVs with about 3x plastic screw adaptors for different brass valve heads, and would expect automated TRVs to be the same.
If your current rads just have 2x screw-in valves (lockshield and manual control valve), and you need to fit a TRV-pin type valve, then you’ll need some plumbing skills.
I have replaced valves without draining down a full wet system, but this takes some bravery - the ice freezing kits (block a pipe with ice) aren’t reliable, so I used a cork bung and a set of brass blanking off end caps.
Close the rad valves, and ensure the heating is COLD.
Unscrew one valve from the rad tail, and cap the rad short tail pipe with a blank.
You should have a sealed rad, and a closed manual valve head on a pipe, sealed with a nut and pipe olive inside it.
Quickly remove the valve from the pipe. Black horrible water will gush out, but if you are quick, and cork the pipe or swap the new valve straight away it can be done with lots of towels. Be careful not to damage the olive on the pipe!
If you cap both ends of a rad with caps, it can be removed to paint the wall behind, or moved outside to be flushed with a hose to remove the iron scale inside.
Airlocks and leaks may be a pain until things settle down.
If you have lots of radiators, or white carpets, then I’d get a plumber / gas tech to drain the system down, swap the valves for TRV, and flush it.
Note most heating techs are just starting to understand wireless thermostats and are scared stiff of automation as it goes wrong and burns their profit on customer call outs which are mostly not their fault. I have some sympathy as many devices are very badly designed and unreliable (e.g. the case has no ventilation, PSU capacitor overheats, £2 part dies and kills a £200 device).
And that’s just the mechanical part… the automation should be the east bit!
Engineer’s answer - “It Depends”
Protocols like Thread, Zigbee, Z-Wave are inherently local.
Using a 3rd party hub MIGHT route your data via the cloud.
Hardware may be made in the same factory, but guess how one is €20 cheaper? Security, testing, ongoing firmware maintenance, warranty.
HA has a labelling system to show when an integration connects via a cloud.
PS Vesternet have a reasonable range of devices, but usefully arrange them by both protocol and function - here’s a selection of TRVs as examples:
Thanks for your clear explanation.
About communication protocol: Zigbee seems better. I am already planning put another Sonoff zigbee hub on upper floor.
About the installation: to be honest I was thinking to drain water first then change valves to be on safe side. Thanks for “how to” explanation. That would definitely help. As it seems, mines are screwed instead of using this olive to compress.
About the communicating over cloud/local. So when adding device that cloud symbol also represent communication. First I thought it is just showing device will be added over cloud info. Good to know.
About the device: It is definitely correct that at the end I will get what I paid. I decided to go with Bosch. It is couple more euro expensive then Aqara but still cheaper than Vesternet. So if installation goes right setup will be HA>Sonoff Zigbee Dongle(Zigbee2MQTT)>Bosch RTV.
The horizontal pipe from the rad is a what I’d call a “radiator tail” - a short pipe
threaded on both ends. A “stop end” or blank to fit this is useful to allow the valve to be closed, the horizontal nut to be unscrewed, and then the “tail” capped with a stop end, sealing the radiator.
The vertical pipe from the boiler DOES have an olive, or compression gland between the two hexagonal parts. This also will need to be unscrewed to replace the valve, and even with boiler valves closed, will likely spew horrible water unless you fit the new valve very quickly, or use a rubber / cork bung.
I’d read up on plumbing or get a professional. Don’t do what I did on my first radiator change, and leave the heating on AUTO. Don’t try to fit a valve as the blackwater gets slowly hotter, and hotter, and hotter…
Don’t know their hardware, but I think Bosch used to supply a controller related to openHAB - don’t know what happened though after I moved to HA.
Thanks again for your help. I was able to replace valve with TRV and add smart caps. Only in one of the bedroom has leaking issue but I have discovered that, pipe is just a bit short there. So olive pass pipe edge, I will replace pipe there that should sole issue.
this post!
