Recommended hardware for multi room audio

Hardware
21

No need for any RPi or amplifier(s).
I will explain my setup a bit. Hopefully it clarifies things a bit.
I run VLC player and Mopidy player om my HAOS. VLC player streams to the audio output of the HA PC and Mopidy to a USB audio device hooked up to the same HA PC. Both outputs are connected to the XAP800.
Via mopidy I stream for example internet radio to only the rooms where movement is. If I have an announcement to make I use VLC player and do that to any room i like. I can however also have music from my NAS in one room and other music in any other or all other rooms.

The XAP800 can lower or raise the volume on each and any channel.
But there is a catch here. These outputs are about as loud as a kitchen radio (but HiFi quality). For me max volume it to loud in a room to have a normal conversation. If you need more volume then just add a 5W amp (only $2-3t a piece on AliExpress) at the output of the XAP800 and connect the speaker wire to that… I do that for my workshop.

For me this audio system is intended to have nice background music in every room, multiple audio sources and announcement options but not at concert sound levels.

You control the unit via a serial connection. (USB to Serial will do.)

Just have a look at the ClearOne XAP800 manual for the specs
They go for around $80,- on ebay.

The newer model ClearOne Converge Pro 840T is a bit more expressive on ebay but that one has included a hefty amplifiers output on one channel and the phone unit is also included.

22

@mterry63
thanks, this sounds like an interresting solution.

@AshaiRey
I dont get how the speaker work without an amp in the whole config?

how do you use HA for the audio streaming? can you stream multiple instances?

23

The xap800 does it. The XAP can drive the speaker.
You can amplify the signal at each point in the mixer,

matrix

at each the input,
input9to12

at each internal connection crossing in the mixer and in the signal processors
processors

and at each output.

You have full control over your audio.

If you have a mic next to your TV then you can split the sound of your TV and feed it into the XAP800. There you can subtract the TV form the audio of your mic and have a clear sound of your mic. Noise cancelling

It’s a rather complex device but ounce setup it is fast and it just works without any maintenance for years.

You should first have your requirements written out.
Do you want to have a rock concert in the toilet, No. Same in your fridge, No (yes, I have music in my fridge just because I can), The hall, bedroom before you go to sleep, in your Livingroom when you have your family in law visiting you or when the baby sleeps. 99,9% of the time you just want to have music at a decent level and that follow you around the house. For that one special occasion when you have a loud retro disco party you would use an external amp with big speakers anyway. Just stream then directly to your soundbar and whatever you use. But use the potential that HA hands you. Instead of wiring a speaker direct which is perfectly fine you can run that wire to an amp that is plugged in to the net with a power plug. When you switch the audio to that device just turn on that amp also (and off again when finished) It doesn’t have to be a big box. A small 5W amp on a breakout pcb will do the job well enough and can be powered via usb or a 110/220v adapter and that same power plug.

About: how do you use HA for the audio streaming? can you stream multiple instances?

The PC where HA in runs has a audio output (3,5mm jack for headphone) so that is one audio stream.
Next I added a cheap usb soundcard and to that I can stream another audio stream.
The media players can see these audio sources an use them as inputs

The config in VLC Player and Mopidy player are the same
sources

And because they are connected to different sources they can both stream different audio streams. Their outputs are connected to the XAP800. There you can connect each input to each and any output in whatever manner you want.

It is really that simple.

Yes, you can build a whole house system with 3 monoprice at $600,- each. Or russound or 21 Rpi but that would set you back serious $$. You got your speakers wired already and in your case you need 2 XAP800. (24 inputs and 24 outputs). It could be done under $100,- Just in case you absolutely need the extras such a extra usb sound card and additional local amps then just add another $150,- and you are done. ( I would be anyway, but who am I to say)

I hope this clarifies things a bit, I don’t mind to provide configs and such and further detailed info but you need to have your requirements clear.

24

Just to be clear, the XAP800 is simply a mixer - a device that take inputs and combines them in outputs. It isn’t fair to say it can replace the Monoprice or Russound amps because it can’t produce similar power outputs, and it doesn’t replace the RPi’s because it doesn’t generate source audio. You can think of it as a very low power Monoprice amp without the zone keypads and more inputs and outputs. Personally, I have no need of 12 independent sources, maybe 2-3 at best. And I’d prefer the ability to produce more volume when necessary.

25

I agree that the russound and monoprice are quiet different devices and at a different price tag. They hardly can be compared. But one of the questions here was a whole audio system that doesn’t cost much. Also it was noted that music sources are spotify, amazon music, youtube music, local nas, etc. while a RPi can connect to each music source it can also be done via your HA server. A RPI + sd card + power block + case is far more expensive than adding a usb sound card to you HA server. And you should also question yourself ‘do I really need 21 different audio source at the same time?’.

However I disagree with your statement that this device is simply a mixer because it can do much more then just that.

But all our opinions mentioned here are good material for the thread starter to think about. My needs probably won’t be same as anyone else. It is good to have choices.

1 Like
26

Agreed, choice is good. The OP did say “I’m tending to avoid a fully “homemade” solution. it should work reliable for years”.

Music Assistant → WiiM → Monoprice/Russsoud is about as simple as possible without any custom integrations and meets the Airplay 2 requirement. I think it ticks all the boxes with minimal effort.

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Regarding the clearone solution:
those mixers seem to be quite cheap in general when used. you can even get the latest Pro 2 for about 200 bucks on ebay. but I haven’t found anything about a home assistant integration for the newer units.

And how would the solution look like when I want some zones amplified?

regarding the monoprice/russound solution:
I read some bad reviews about both brands.

the monoprice amps seem to be not very reliable. some users claimed that their amp stopped working after a view years.

the new russound amps are too pricy for my budget. so only older devices like the MCA-C5 would be interesting. but I read many discussions regarding these product generation about lost connections due to a faulty russound firmware. so I am still quite reserved…

1 Like
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Going up in budget Vessel A.1x – VSSL sells 1 and 6 zone amps with built-in Airplay 2 support. Wiim makes an amp with integrated receiver as well at half the cost ($300) but only 1 zone not up to 6.

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Quick note on the Russound solution,

I’m currently rocking an MCA-C5 with the connection firmware issue. I’ve found that most of those units do have functioning hardware unless they were already updated to the latest firmware.

In my case, using a Ethernet to Serial adapter (like the Global Cache IP2SL) works perfectly and I have no reliability issues.

I’m the developer for the Russound RIO integration so I’m pretty familiar with the hardware if you have any other questions.

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@mterry63
the vessel 6 zone amps are beyond 3k. in this case I would prefer monoprice/russound.

@noahhusby
great to hear that you are working on those issues. you are probably a bit biased but what hardware would be your recommendation?

31

@satand I can only speak to the Russound devices since I have very little familiarity with the monoprice unit.

As for your requirements:

  1. If you can reduce the zones to 16, then two MCA-C5s would work great. Keep in mind that while the MCA-C5 has eight channels, only six of them are amplified and the other two require an external amp. It’s really easy to daisy chain the controllers using the RNET ports on the back of the unit, then you only have to connect the primary controller to Home Assistant and it will automatically find all controllers and zones.
  2. Since the older Russound units don’t have an integrated streamer, you would need an external source to achieve spotify, amazon music, youtube music, etc. I think others have suggested RPi-based solutions above for this.
  3. Same RPi-based solution for AirPlay.
  4. Smooth Integration: The Russound RIO integration works really well if the controller is connected. With the MCA-C3 or C5, if the internal ethernet port is being unreliable, you can use an ethernet to serial adapter which completely mitigates the issue. I’ve found the unit to be 100% reliable once it’s connected to the integration. You can find these adapters for around ~$50, but give the built-in port a try first since it very well could be fine.
  5. The older Russound units aren’t locked down in any way so super easy to configure if you have a windows computer handy. They are also completely locally controlled so no worrying about cloud solutions.
  6. You can find old MCA-series controllers on ebay for pretty cheap. Some of the ones marked as “for parts” are typically broken in some manor. I’ve grabbed MCA-C5s for ~$250-$350 before.
  7. The controller is very reliable, just see my note on the serial adapter if necessary.

3x MCA-C3 all daisy-chained could also work to reach 18 zones if that comes out to be cheaper. Sometimes they are more available.

1 Like
32

thanks for your note.

ad 1: yes, I can reduce the zones to 16. very good hint, that the MCA-C5 has only six amplified channels. I was not aware of that. is there a difference between the MCA-C5 and MCA-C5s? and did you ever check the standby consumption of your C5? I heard that it is about 20W, which is pretty much for 24/7. is there a way to handle that?
ad 2+3: I see that as an advantage because the streaming devices are developing quite fast. if the streaming device is separate, it can be easily updated. the controller/amplifiers are the more expensive part and hopefully long-lasting.
ad 4: are the C3 and C5 the only recommendable (used) Russound options? Is it possible to daisy chain a C3 and a C5 as well?
ad 6: best place to buy a used russound is ebay, right? I assume that the offers marked as “parts only” are not recommendable.

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  1. By MCA-C5(s), I meant plural MCA-C5 not a different model. I’m not aware of the power consumption of the unit in standby unfortunately. I’m surprised by 20W in standby but not sure.
  2. IMO, the C3 and C5 are the best used options from Russound. The MCA-66 (replaced the C3), and the MCA-88 (replaced the C5) are newer and aren’t typically super cheap. In addition, they require credentials from certified installers making them inaccessible to DIYers unless you can find an installer that would give you credentials. A C3 and C5 cannot be chained using RNET (their serial linking system), but they can both be added as seperate entries in Home Assistant which would achieve the same thing. (Basically either you have multiple of the same controller daisy-chained and you hook up the primary controller only to HA, or you have different controllers all hooked up over ethernet directly to HA). Has the same effect.
  3. I’ve only purchased Russound controllers from eBay but there very well could be better priced options elsewhere, just haven’t explored that. I’ve purchased 3x MCA-C5s at different times from eBay. One was marked as parts only with no other info and didn’t work. One of the other ones was parts only but marked as untested and works fine so it really depends on the unit/seller.
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@noahhusby
thanks for all the info! here is a discussion about the stand-by consumption (google translate): https://knx--user--forum-de.translate.goog/forum/öffentlicher-bereich/gebäudetechnik-ohne-knx-eib/1572053-russound-mca-c5-per-aktor-abschalten?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

@AshaiRey
Could you please share more information about your clearone integration? do you know, if your integration would also work with the latest clearone mixer? how would it work to amplify the channels?

35

I have had the newer 880T mixer tested in my configuration and it just works too because the commands and structure are the same.
I do not use any integration. I could make one but it would be to much work for me for not much gain. When it is setup it is finished. No need to fiddle with it anymore.

It works just by sending an ASCII string (just a plain text string) to the mixer. All the commands are explained in detail in the xap800 manual so everything is available when you want a special command. Because it is just plain text you can use everything HA offers, including templating

I have a shell command in my config the accepts a string and send it to the serial port at wich the XAP800 is connected too.

For me this will turn the music om in the kitchen
“‘MTRX I 12 1 O 1’”
Connect a matrix point called I 12 (Audio In) to 1 O (Kitchen output)

The yaml looks like this
action: shell_command.zmc_control
data:
value: “‘MTRX I 12 1 O 1’”

To turn it off again
“'MTRX I 12 1 O 0”

Command structure for the matrix command is
MTRX [Value]

That is the basic how to switch things. I have made a config for the XAP800 that you can load on the mixer. It will use macros and the audio processors. Doing so you only need a few commands to put the mixer in a state where you have different streams to different rooms or opening up the mics if you have them. You don’t have to use this but it will make changing complex states a bit faster and less complex

The MTRX and GAIN commands are basically the only 2 commands that I use.

Now about your question
Ever point or connection in the mixer has to possibility to set the gain.

This will set output 1 to -6 dB as an absolute value
“‘GAIN 1 O -6 A’”

You can also raise the volume of the input stream that is send into the mixer but not to much because when to much you get distortion. The media player in HA is the place to do it. I never use that option because it acts like a master volume and effects every room where this streeam is passed too.

But if you mean how to amplify an output after the mixer that the answer is really to simple.

Just get one of many amps you want.
For example this one

A suggestion to wire this up

wiring
wiring1000×261 65.8 KB

I have an extended writeup of my system on my private blog. It is from some years back and it contains a lot of detailed info about using it with mics. But if there is enough interess then I could do a write up here how to setup and use it in HA.
The M@D Scientist

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About standby consumption
If that is a major concern (it should be) then use HA for that.

Get one of these (zigbee, wifi, timer clock or any other tech)
download

Put the amp, xap800, adapter(s), russound or whatever you use on this and switch it off at night or when you leave. When I go upstairs to sleep then the alarm goes on at the ground level. In the morning the alarm is turned off again. When I leave the house the alarm goes on for the whole house. At these times none of the audio has to be on because nobody listens to it.

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@AshaiRey
many thanks for sharing this!

I went through the guidance on your webside and this looks great! especially the optional voice recognition part is awesome. but I’m afraid that setting this up on my own is way beyond my abilities.

btw…some parts of you blog are not working. I’m getting a timeout.

38

+1 for LMS and PiCorePlayers. I have a variety of some 20 speakers in ceiling, Sonos Google Hub Chrome Bluetooth Windows PC and RPi (running Squeezelite on PiCorePlayer OS. LMS pulls it all together and you couldn’t pry it from my dying body😳