Go the Proxmox route if this is an option for you. A lot more flexible than any other route mentioned. Why? Because you can run Frigate in a KVM or run it as LXC plus HAOS in a KVM with ability to expand storage in less than a min. Then you have the ability to run HAOS with add-ons or install add-on outside HAOS as LXCs/KVMs. The speed of a KVM/LXC today is virtually on a par with BM.
One more thing. If your Proxmox host is not underpowered running Frigate in Proxmox is not an issue.
You can also experiment with Shinobi which is a more polished NVR with options for AI/ML solutions.
Using Proxmox you can run Frigate and Shinobi side-by-side to experiment until you decide which one to drop.
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My next project is setting up Proxmox on an ThinkCentre M710q Tiny-PC i5-7400T with 32MB Ram, 1TB NVMe and 4TB SATA HDD. Do you think that might work?
For now, I installed HAOS on the USB SATA HDD, downloaded a backup from an NAS and started restore. Surprisingly to me, there was no message like “Restore, please wait” or so. I even could trigger the process multiple times. But after a while I got my installation back. Basically, I worked like a charm. Only thing is that the static network configuration was not restored. It was on DHCP. Also had to reboot the system a few times until error messages concerning MQTT were gone. Now everything is working as before with now 1.5 TB HD space. This should do for now.
I will try the setup with HAOS as VM and frigate in docker some day.
Big thanks to all of you!!!
Unfortunately the ThinkCentre M710q is underpowered (4 cores x 4 threads) 7th gen arc.
Not certain if this is a second hand or buying brand new.
I suggest the following, which have plenty power and are relatively affordable. The AMD series outperforms the Intel series from the below companies. I also suggest buy barebone to fit the most appropriate components.
Beelink: GTR6 6900HX, GTR5 5900HX (uses 2x2.5G NICs)
Minisforum: Neptune HX90G, EliteMini HX90
NUC is an option as well, but at a higher cost without the power parity.
Was refurbished, cheap. Will have a look about the others, I still can return this one.
I run Home Assistant on docker on a Dell Optiplex 7010 that I bought used online. It was only $155 and the specs are USFF i3-3220 3.30GHz 8GB ram, with 512GB SSD (I have a 2tb external WD drive already).
It runs docker and everything else I have just fine - this includes 12 containers and the Shinobi NVR. This is the performance from the Top command with everything running- you can see minimal CPU and memory usage.:
My system is WAY less powerful than your ThinkCentre M710q you have. The point is a VM works great with the proper hardware, and I’m not trying to knock Proxmox, with it being a great option with the proper hardware. However, VM’s are much less efficient then docker, and require more powerful hardware to run then a docker environment. I didn’t go through all the suggestions on hardware to run Proxmox from the other poster, but the machines recommended all look pretty expensive. I know Proxmox is a bit different then a traditional VM, and has some ability to run VM’s and containers, but its still going to use more resources if you setup multiple VM’s vs multiple docker containers. Here’s a good article explaining the advantages and disadvantages of containers vs VM’s
In addition, I generally avoid installing setups where the project’s official documentation advises specifically against it. Before moving forward with Frigate on Proxmox, I would take a look at this thread. Many run it no problem, others have reported issues
If cost isn’t a factor, I agree Proxmox probably gives you many more options and works great, but for me, I don’t want to spend a fortune on equipment, especially when an alternative/cheaper setup (ie Docker) works just fine.
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Sorry to all for getting offtopic, but how about running docker on Proxmox?!
I assume you do not have enough experience with virtualisation. I am not suggesting running Shinobi in a KVM. Instead we run Shinobi on LXC. An LXC running full Debian server requires 20MB RAM and uses almost 0% CPU, that is 1 CPU. LXCs are full system containers with no restriction on networking or any other OS aspects except sharing the Kernel with the Hypervisor.
FYI here are a couple of examples of LXCs.
It also seems your Shinobi instance is most likely not doing much of anything. Try 10 cameras live streaming at 1080p @ 25fps (will not ask to add event management, face/object/faceplate recognition). Then you might come to appreciate why proper virtualisation or bare metal is the way for NVRs. Docker is fantastic for line of business applications and mainly for CI/CD dev envs.
Running Docker under Proxmox adds an unnecessary layer of virtualisation, unless you want to run multiple apps under one KVM/LXC instance, or what you are trying to setup is too difficult/time-consuming to do outside Docker, as other people have done the hard work on your behalf.
Not with proxmox, but I initially tried HAOS in VirtualBox, and the cpu usage was through the roof, with frequent crashes. Passing the zwave and zsticks through reliably was also a nightmare. The LXC options of Proxmox sound interesting, but the setup I have has been reliable so I don’t want to change it
I am running Shinobi on bare metal in Ubuntu. I run everything on either bare metal or docker. My posts weren’t really clear about what runs where. It’s only two 1080p cameras recording 24/7 though, so yes, by no means an advanced security system. Motion detection is built into the cameras so I dont need the NVR software to do that.
Agree, which is the same reason why I wouldn’t run a supervised version of Home Assistant (which is a bunch of docker containers managed by the supervisor) in a VM. If someone wants to run other software with Home Assistant, and they are starting out ,i would suggest the VM initially for ease of use, as most tutorials are around a supervised install. However, it is extra layers and less then an ideal use of resources.
As of now I don‘t have much experience with VM. First thing for me will be understanding the differences between KVM, LXC and docker. My basic aim will be to run several Services that run, right know, on Different machines. PI hole and WireGuard server on an RasPi, Surveillance Station (will be replaced by Frigate or Shinobi?!) and EcoDMS on an old Proliant server on Windows Server 2012.
I think it would be helpful for me to find a easy way for a beginner. I could easily find out to set up a docker container or an KVM, but running frigate in LXC seems way more difficult.
Technical jargon can sometimes be misleading. A simple way to understand the stack is to think of a KVM as an LXC + Linux-kernel. Both behave the same way from an operational point of view in that they both (KVM/LXC) can run any Linux distro. KVM however can also run non Linux OS (Windows, MacOS, Android-x86, Unix), which LXC does not support.
Check the link for more info on LXC: Linux Container - Proxmox VE
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