Sensors not Always Triggering

I’m testing with the sensor actually installed. I have 4 door sensors. The closest one to the server indicates an LQI of 255 and RSSI of -72. The one further from the server has an LQI of 255 (must be manufacturer based linkind though aqara did the same thing) and RSSI of -53 (which is weird that it’s better given that it’s further from the hub).

That’s because your 433MHz devices are crap then. None of my 433MHz, nor my 868MHz zwave devices stop functioning just because a human body is infront of them. That would be a bit ridiculous, especially for motion sensors…

It doesn’t stop functioning because a human body is in front of it. It just doesn’t work every time. Like I said, I can go to the door and open and close it in a testing environment and the sensor is tripped. But for some reason, if some time goes by, someone opens the door it won’t always trigger it. It’s almost like a state is not being checked or it’s going to sleep.

What do you that it works again? Reset the device? Take out the battery? :battery::arrows_counterclockwise:

Also have you tried testing the sensors closer to a receiver or on a different location to rule out possible interferences? :signal_strength:

Maybe also tell us the brands and models so people can tell about their mileage…

No reset necessary. Just open HA on my phone and look at the state. Keep opening and closing and it eventually triggers.

I tried Linkind and Aqara. Same issue with both. I’m going to try a Zwave sensor to see if there’s any difference.

I guess we disagree on this. I actually did a research before to find the best device for my needs. At the time (2019) there was no other device available which offered a battery lifetime in the same ball park. Without taking a battery self discharge into account @1technophile calculated a estimated runtime of 11.439 days based on his measurements. :chart_with_upwards_trend:

My units entering the fifth year of service now (around 1800 days) and still going strong with the (for my convenience) included battery :joy:

Regarding the downside of this long distance runner - the low range - that wasn’t any concern for me. As I have a minimum of one esphome node deployed per room I just added the 433MHz receivers (superheterodyne ones for ~$2) on the right spots and called it a day (that was five years ago) :tada:

Next time maybe think twice before claiming other people devices (that you don’t even know) are crap :wink:

They’ll use a different controller, protocol stack, driver and frequency. So you would be changing all parameters at once. There’s a good chance they will not react the same way, unless the problem is with your underlying hardware (or the VM in this case).

The symptoms you described could be anything, from weak signal over software issues (you didn’t mention which Zigbee software stack you are using) to a problem with the coordinator (you didn’t mention which one you use), the VM usb passthrough, etc.

If they stop working when your body shields them, then they are crap. There’s no arguing around this.

Thank you for the responses. You’ve been at least trying to help me. I’m using ZHA integration with the GoControl Nortek hub. I have about 15 Enbrighten zigbee switches and about 10 plugs and all of them work fine.

Ok thanks for the info. I don’t use Zigbee myself (I’m on zwave), so I am not too familiar with the specifics, but the fact that your other devices work fine rules out VM and coordinator issues.

The next step would be to rule out RF signal issues and interference. I assume that with hub you mean the HUSBZB ? Are you using a USB extension cable to connect it to your server ? If not, add one. The USB controller on the mainboard can create a lot of interference.

If that doesn’t help, try the problematic device while it is physically close to the stick, line of sight. If it still causes problems, it’s not an RF isssue.

I have read a lot about issues with ZHA and recent HA versions lately, it seems that people experience a lot of weird effects. I don’t know if that’s related, but it could be another thing to consider.

Take a look at my Zigbee visualization. The highlighted devices are 4 door sensors and 2 water leak sensors. Is this why I may be having a reporting issue and, if so, what to do?

Just to close the loop on this thread, I purchased a third sensor and it works flawlessly. The
Aeotec SmartThings Multipurpose Sensor - Zigbee - Door and Window Sensor, Temperature Sensor.

It’s a little pricier than the other two I tried, but not only are these sensors always being appropriately triggered, you’re allowed a whole inch between the sensor and the magnet. Perfect for doors with molding or that aren’t on the same plane.

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That’s good! Questions still stands why your last two purchases are failing at the same location with the same symptoms :thinking: Maybe they actually were RF interference and your newest device performs better in that terms?

Aren’t there any options to activate some debug logging on the devices or coordinator to get an idea what’s failing? I’m used to just open the (ota) logs :page_with_curl: of my esphome nodes if something needs insights. :mag:

On the other hand did you ever check if the two (failing) devices perform normal/good on other locations (specially close to a receiver)? :tokyo_tower:

Sorry I need to tell you this but the air is a shared medium. That means it’s always possible that additional obstacles in the line-of-sight can degrade the link quality - even up to the point that a connection is lost :warning:

To make a simple test you can just take one (or two) of your superior devices and have them placed on the edge were they still catch a signal. Now you can try to place different obstacles between sender and receiver and monitor the link/signal quality. Does it stay the same? Does it in/de-crease? You tell us! :joy:

As another note for @ecchodun: Are your glass doors/windows coated? While glass itself (even double and tripple layer) isn’t that big problem some metal coating applied on glass (often branded as “heat shield” :fire::shield: etc.) on the other hand can interfere a lot with RF. For my 433 reed sensors it was necessary to have the receivers within 5.5m (they can reach up to 13m line-of-sight without obstacles) to have 100% receive rate of the open/close actions :door::walking_man:

Let’s consider an average transmitter (+10dBm, even though actually good ones go higher, depending on legal regulations for the 433MHz band) and an average receiver at -80dBm (good receivers usually are much more sensitive than that). Line of sight, dry air, with a typical link margin of 15dBm, which is plenty for OOK modulation as normally used by cheap 433MHz devices. No antenna gain, since the antennas are typically omnidirectional.

free space path loss (FSPL) is thus

FSPL(dB) = 10 + (-80) - 15 = 75

So, plug that into free space path loss equation (*):

FSPL(dB) = 20log10(d) 20log10(f) + 20log10(4π / c)

f being 433MHz,

d = 10((FSPL(dB) - 32.45 - 20log(433)) / 20) = 310 meters

In practice that figure will be lower due to air never being entirely dry, due to losses on the PCB traces carrying the RF signal and due to enclosures. Let’s half it for good measure, around 150 meters. Coincidently that’s pretty much what I get with my what you called “superior devices” on line of sight conditions (actually entirely non-superior normal Oregon Scientific thermometers and some DIY with good transmitters and an RFXCOM).

In conclusion, your 433MHz devices are crap. You’re welcome.

(* more info for people interested in the math behind RF distance estimates and link budgets, see this paper here).

You should by now already be aware that I don’t use a average transmitter but one that almost has no power draw (the self discharge of the battery is probably higher than the energy this device uses :bulb:). Obviously this thing doesn’t blast with full power but conserves energy as much as possible :battery:

Power consumption estimation
When sending signal (open or close) 12mA during 1,6s
Sleep current 0.47uA continuously

The findings from @1technophile are well documented, fell free to widen your horizont a little bit @HeyImAlex :wink:

In synthesis the main criterias that differentiate both sensors are the autonomy and the range, in terms of range the GS-WDS07 is a lot more powerfull compared to the DIGOO. At the opposite it results in an impressive autonomy for the DIGOO.
Your choice will depend to the distance between your windows/doors and the gateway, if you live on a small flat for example you will not need the power of the GS-WDS07 and could take the DIGOO.
For a house or a big appartment I will advise the GS-WDS07.

While it might be hard for you to accept this devices are great for many use cases. :+1:

Beside If I would have invested in another device (for example one of your “superior” ones :wink:) I would have probably spend more on batteries the last five years than I spend on this device with battery (still going strong after 5 years with the included battery which were around $3 shipped - reed sensor & battery :money_with_wings:)

virtually running on free energy :zap: :joy:

BTW.: With LORA on 433 it’s possible to achieve coverage in the kilometer range :raised_hands:

Oh I think I’m good you know :wink:

55uA draw, 5 year battery life, made from parts I had lying around in one evening, and guess what, >100m line of sight range. No wifi though, sorry 'bout that :wink: It’s not hard. The transmitter isn’t even good. It’s just that the type of devices you linked to above are really really bad.

Yep. Mostly because the rx sensitivity is very high and the required SNR / link margin very low, due to the very low bandwidth and spread spectrum. But you don’t even have to go LoRa for that. You can get >1km range with 433MHz narrow spectrum without a problem on higher bandwidth links, still with very little current draw. You just need to use the right components.

Apples and pears? Is the 55uA the continuous power draw? That’s over 10 times more than the ultra low power reed sensors (0.47uA). No wonder you need more than 10 times (2.500mAh 2xAA instead of ~200mAh CR2032) the battery capacity to achieve (maybe?) the same runtime (or less). Is there even a chance that Alkaline don’t leak? I have my doubts (and use NiMH instead for my last few AA/AAA scenarios) :wink:

But in all a nice DIY build you got there - little costly but probably suits some needs :clap:

And what coincidence that you get 10 times more range with 10 times more power invested :joy:

EDIT: Looks like a Xiaomi LYWSD03MMC thingy (Thermo-/Hygrometer with Display) might a cheap(er?) competitor to your self build which also comes with a nice housing :house:
Average consumption (with display on) is about 15uA beside it features encrypted payloads and can be easily hacked to add a reed switch or button or even use it as thermo-/hygrostat. Beside the display can be used to display custom payloads send from esphome nodes too. In the past you could buy them in packs of four for around $14 (~$3,50 each) and they came with battery. Downside definitely is the battery runtime which is only about 1.5 years on the 200mAh coin cell. The thing doesn’t talk on 433MHz but on 2.4GHz/BLE :signal_strength:

It’s an average with a 11dBm tx that sends data every 5 minutes. The kind of tx that works for more than 5m…

Yours are door sensors. Mine are temperature sensors. The former can entirely cut their power when the reed is open, giving them essentially 0 power draw in standby… The latter can’t do that. That’s called physics. It has absolutely nothing to do with tx performance of either device.

This is getting ridiculous now :man_facepalming:

If your sensors that stop working if you stand in their line of sight fits your use case, great. It doesn’t fit mine. But hey, maybe my expectations about the performance of my devices are just a little higher :wink: Whatever works for you (unless you stand in front of it) !

Anyway I’m out.

That’s quite a huge power draw then and on a typical 200mAh coin cell (which is not prone to leak unlike alkaline batteries after a couple of years) it probably doesn’t even last half a year? I really wouldn’t call that low power anymore… but if you could make of old parts of yours for it that’s already great.

I think you misunderstand something here. In my case (“proper installed”) I’m not able to shield the sensor in anyway. Not with my body and also not with metal coated/shieleded glas. That’s simply because I took care installing the thing correctly and have my receivers in a range that I receive each and every payload. :signal_strength:

Hence I wrote :point_down:

Most people don’t take to much care and just install it and call it a day if it works at that very moment.

But when in real life the service degrades people seeking for help like in this thread here :bulb:

This reed sensors of mine are simply great, they just very reliable do there job and that with a power draw less than a uA. I’m not aware of any other battery powered device I can call my own which was such a good investment. :moneybag:

Yes that equals more than 30 years on planet earth :earth_americas: (Obviously even a Li-coin cell will probably discharge completely in that time)

I would might suffer with your “superior” devices changing batteries every other year - I started already to hard wire some of my Xiaomi LYWSD03MMC to a PSU because of their quite weak battery runtime of only ~1.5 years just mentioned. :chart_with_downwards_trend:

You do you :wink: But next time maybe try to read before claiming other people devices crap and what not :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

EDIT.: Regarding the ridiculous alkaline batteries… they mostly are crusty burger after a few years in my experiences. But maybe you got some “superior” ones - who knows :joy:

image

You do realize that those can easily be substituted by lithium cells, right ? I used those because I happened to have some in a drawer. It’s not that a circuit would stop working because the battery chemistry changes…

What a productive discussion we are having here. Thankfully the op said his problem was solved.

Sensors can fit needs of one and not of another, I understand that the Digoo door sensor may not fit someone needs.
When this sensor was released, it was compact, low power and with a well finished case. Less bulky than the gs-wds07 that had better range.
While it’s true that the sensor’s range may be limited, it doesn’t inherently render it ineffective. The value of any given sensor ultimately depends on the specific needs and setup of each user.

Do you guys need to spend hours debating about this sensor, this is up to you but I’m sure you have better things to do. :slight_smile:

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