I read it, but I’ve seen it a million times (exageration) with an open source project. The first thing someone says is “Make a PR and write some code”. A lot of people can’t do that and its those people that get upset because they understand how things work but they feel like their voice isn’t as important.
I’ve spent many nights in the past just looking at the codebase in order to understand how things work WRT HA. I’ve even replied with solutions to problems here only to have some gatekeeper step in. This, is what gets old. It kinda feels the same way now with this current post.
You want me to write code? I’ll write code. I can write a mean loop like its nobodys bidness. But I don’t feel that that is what it should take to get listened to and to be included in the ‘in crowd.’ I know thats not what you’re implying, but theres been a lot of posts that have implied that before today.
Yep, that definitely happens. I think it’s happened to everyone who’s written a PR. Don’t get discouraged by it though. It takes time to learn the ropes. And if it’s not for you, then don’t bother. I was way more active writing PRs back in the day but I found I fit in the latter group. So I help with the community by writing custom apps for hacs and appdaemon, fixing help, writing up issues, helping on the forums, helping on discord, and helping on reddit.
This x 100. I see criticism from devs even in this thread that people have never made a PR etc… but some people can’t do that. I am not a coder. I barely know enough (although I’m learning) to hack an abandoned custom-card and custom-component. I have done some docs PR’s. I help people on the forum and on discord yet I constantly see references like the above that make me feel my contributions are not valued and therefore I don’t get a voice or a say at all and like everyone else just have to lump it.
It’s actually nice to see, for a change, that this thread hasn’t been locked because God has spoken.
Having said all that, this change doesn’t bother me overly. I will just roll with it as it’s pretty clear it does improve the user experience particularly for newbies. I really don’t see the downside in the GUI config for integrations… this is pretty much a once off. This is generally not the area that people struggle with.
I also understand that a poll is unworkable because it will never be decisive and people will always have grievances. I don’t see a way around it. Some people feel they have not been heard unless they get their way.
I literally quoted your entire response. That was the whole thing you said in response to someone who complained about developer attitudes. Please explain what context is missing. I think you were very clear.
You asked me to show you a quote to back up my statement. I figured your own words would be acceptable as an example. I haven’t seen where you disclaim them, or where you explain how you didn’t mean what you said. But everything you’ve said to me is certainly congruent with the hostile and dismissive attitude I called out, and your words I quoted above seem to explain that attitude very well.
Why do I keep responding to you? Because you keep saying the kinds of things I am calling out. You’re demonstrating my point for me. Why in the world would I not encourage you to do that?
seems like you don’t know what out of context means. How about you read that whole discussion over again and get back instead of cherry picking that one comment. Which I’ve said what 5 times now that “I could have phrased it better”.
I asked for a quote from the devs… I’m not a dev. There are 3 (4?) full time devs. Show me a quote that fits this:
I thought I was nearly finished reading this thread when I got to post 65…
I like having a backup and a (git) version control history of my configuration - one of the main “myths”.
Request: What I would like to see is documentation that describes this use case, including how to migrate from one system to another, restoring the backup/state (repository) from the first system.
I had an SD card fail recently and had to recreate my system from my repo. The configuration YAML files were the easy part. The settings, other program installs, etc. that I had to re-do were the hard part.(So I added more detailed notes for myself for next time.)
I’d like to see docs that show how to migrate HA systems easily. Thank you!
Auto detection only works reliably for users that meet the vendor expectations, which are usually just the ISP router with default config. I had a camera that was not able to be setup because the stupid app to configure it was not able to found the camera because it was doing a full ip scan on a /16 network, and it was timing out.
That part of the article is talking about backups. Many of us like to have our config on a public git repository. Has many stated several times, .storsge is not git, or any other control system, friendly. It mixes config with temporary state, credentials, and changes so often that you will have to commit every 10 minutes, something you don’t want to.
I will not be complaining that much about yaml if this situation that I described were better. But I didn’t see anyone saying there are any plans to address this concerns either
You have to differentiate between backup and shareable configuration and both is possible with the current system.
Shareable - you yaml files with your automations, scripts, scenes, lovelace dashboard, etc.
Backup - everything
You decide when to make a backup of your system and how often. It does not matter where you store that and git is perfectly fine IMO. No need to check in every tiny change to .storage, just whenever you think that a backup might be useful.
Sure, you might argue that the history of .storage might not provide much value beyond pure backup, but that’s what they provide you with, the state of the system.
Yeah, is that etc part what I’m missing. I also want to be able to share my devices.
In fact, I want to share everything except secrets. And that is not possible now. I think we both know what I’m talking about, but you keep ignoring what I try to say and keep stating the same thing about backup. We just lost one HA feature, and there is no workaround or possible argument about that.
I appreciate your repeated efforts of explaining the backup process, but that is not the point almost all of us are trying to make here. If you don’t see it it’s probably because you don’t need it and are not able to put on someone else’s shoes, which is not that bad, but you can not argue the backup thing again.
If you would instead of accusing me of ignorance and the inability to “put on someone else’s shoes” rather explain what exactly you are missing it might be easier to answer that question. And, no, I wont go back and read the other 331 comments in this thread.
Firstly I have to say that on the whole I think this (ahem) discussion has been pretty well mannered. I’m glad it wasn’t locked, I for one have enjoyed (ok, possibly not exactly the right word) hearing opinions from all sides.
To me though, whilst understandably in a thread generating 330+ comments in a couple of days, it seems to have begun to go slightly off the specific point.
Would it be true to say that there are broadly three camps here?
Those who would rather everything stayed configurable in text files,
Those who like the move to a UI based experience, and
Those who (grudgingly maybe?) see some benefit in a UI based experience, especially perhaps for ‘one time setups’, like integrations, but are afraid that eventually everything will go down that route with no option for text based configuration.
I am probably in camp 1 but I recognise that isn’t going to happen and I completely understand and to some extent sympathise with the reasons why that is. So that puts me squarely into camp 3. I resisted UI based integrations for a while but now I grudgingly ( ) embrace them. However, there is no way on earth I would use the Automation editor (for example). For a start it produces almost unreadable YAML (IMHO) with no comments. Why on earth it was released that way is a mystery to me. Maybe I’m just an old dinosaur and things have moved on since I wrote programs for a living but certainly back in the day it was a rule of thumb where I came from that the number of lines of comments should at least approach the number of lines of code.
But I digress
I just think those of us in group 3 would like to hear a categoric answer (reassurance would be even better) to the simple question; will hand written YAML still be available to be used for what I would call the functional parts of HA e.g. Automations and Scripts?
I think most of the anger/resentment, call it what you will, is directed towards the perceived weasel words that don’t feel like they project the truth. (Please note both sets of italics in that sentence.)
I know this is repeated by some quite a few times with the goal of these comments is to keep that, however, that is not going to be the case. If you considered this a feature, yes, it will be lost in that case.
I think a problem is this: with purely yaml setup, people got used to being able to use git as both a backup and as a community share of setups. Exclude the secrets file and I can share my whole (commented) setup and backup at the same time.
Now I can’t do that - .storage has too many files that contain passwords and other private information to make it backupable to git with a simple one line exclusion.
There’s a few addons out there that backup snapshots to google drive and one that will back it up to a server over ssh. I use both for the UI aspects. The google drive one has a rolling 5 backups. The ssh one just dumps a single file without maintaining a rolling number. But on the server where the dumps are placed, I created an automation that only keeps 14 days worth. Took about 15 minutes to setup the google drive. About an hour to setup the ssh one.
