Thinking of Bailing

jriker1 · December 13, 2019, 12:42am

24 set to Send Notification if status is changed manually or remotely.

Here’s what should be the log for a “failure”. Switched it on and it went off again:

2019-12-12 18:40:25.578 Detail, Node006,   Received: 0x01, 0x10, 0x00, 0x04, 0x00, 0x06, 0x0a, 0x32, 0x02, 0x21, 0x74, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x82
2019-12-12 18:40:25.578 Detail,
2019-12-12 18:40:25.578 Detail, Node006, Refreshed Value: old value=false, new value=false, type=bool
2019-12-12 18:40:25.578 Detail, Node006, Changes to this value are not verified
2019-12-12 18:40:25.578 Info, Node006, Received Meter report from node 6: Power=0.000W
2019-12-12 18:40:25.578 Detail, Node006, Refreshed Value: old value=0.000, new value=0.000, type=decimal
2019-12-12 18:40:25.578 Detail, Node006, Changes to this value are not verified
2019-12-12 18:40:25.578 Detail, Node006, Notification: ValueChanged
2019-12-12 18:40:25.581 Warning, Exception: Manager.cpp:2499 - 102 - ValueID passed to GetValueFloatPrecision is not a Decimal Value
2019-12-12 18:40:25.581 Warning, Exception: Manager.cpp:2499 - 102 - ValueID passed to GetValueFloatPrecision is not a Decimal Value
2019-12-12 18:40:25.586 Detail, Node006, Notification: ValueChanged
2019-12-12 18:40:29.059 Info, Node006, Value::Set - COMMAND_CLASS_SWITCH_BINARY - Switch - 0 - 1 - True
2019-12-12 18:40:29.060 Info, Node006, SwitchBinary::Set - Setting node 6 to On
2019-12-12 18:40:29.060 Detail, Node006, Queuing (Send) SwitchBinaryCmd_Set (Node=6): 0x01, 0x0a, 0x00, 0x13, 0x06, 0x03, 0x25, 0x01, 0xff, 0x25, 0x3b, 0x26
2019-12-12 18:40:29.060 Detail, Node006, Queuing (Send) SwitchBinaryCmd_Get (Node=6): 0x01, 0x09, 0x00, 0x13, 0x06, 0x02, 0x25, 0x02, 0x25, 0x3c, 0xdf
2019-12-12 18:40:29.060 Detail,
2019-12-12 18:40:29.060 Info, Node006, Sending (Send) message (Callback ID=0x3b, Expected Reply=0x13) - SwitchBinaryCmd_Set (Node=6): 0x01, 0x0a, 0x00, 0x13, 0x06, 0x03, 0x25, 0x01, 0xff, 0x25, 0x3b, 0x26
2019-12-12 18:40:29.276 Detail, Node006,   Received: 0x01, 0x04, 0x01, 0x13, 0x01, 0xe8
2019-12-12 18:40:29.277 Detail, Node006,   ZW_SEND_DATA delivered to Z-Wave stack
2019-12-12 18:40:29.330 Detail, Node006,   Received: 0x01, 0x07, 0x00, 0x13, 0x3b, 0x00, 0x00, 0x06, 0xd6
2019-12-12 18:40:29.330 Detail, Node006,   ZW_SEND_DATA Request with callback ID 0x3b received (expected 0x3b)
2019-12-12 18:40:29.330 Info, Node006, Request RTT 269 Average Request RTT 181
2019-12-12 18:40:29.330 Detail,   Expected callbackId was received
2019-12-12 18:40:29.330 Detail,   Expected reply was received
2019-12-12 18:40:29.331 Detail,   Message transaction complete
2019-12-12 18:40:29.331 Detail,
2019-12-12 18:40:29.331 Detail, Node006, Removing current message
2019-12-12 18:40:29.331 Detail,
2019-12-12 18:40:29.332 Info, Node006, Sending (Send) message (Callback ID=0x3c, Expected Reply=0x04) - SwitchBinaryCmd_Get (Node=6): 0x01, 0x09, 0x00, 0x13, 0x06, 0x02, 0x25, 0x02, 0x25, 0x3c, 0xdf
2019-12-12 18:40:29.344 Detail, Node006,   Received: 0x01, 0x04, 0x01, 0x13, 0x01, 0xe8
2019-12-12 18:40:29.344 Detail, Node006,   ZW_SEND_DATA delivered to Z-Wave stack
2019-12-12 18:40:29.574 Detail, Node006,   Received: 0x01, 0x07, 0x00, 0x13, 0x3c, 0x00, 0x00, 0x18, 0xcf
2019-12-12 18:40:29.574 Detail, Node006,   ZW_SEND_DATA Request with callback ID 0x3c received (expected 0x3c)
2019-12-12 18:40:29.575 Info, Node006, Request RTT 242 Average Request RTT 211
2019-12-12 18:40:29.575 Detail,   Expected callbackId was received
2019-12-12 18:40:33.574 Detail, Node006,   Received: 0x01, 0x10, 0x00, 0x04, 0x00, 0x06, 0x0a, 0x32, 0x02, 0x21, 0x74, 0x00, 0x00, 0x03, 0x54, 0x00, 0x00, 0xd5
2019-12-12 18:40:33.574 Detail,
2019-12-12 18:40:33.575 Info, Node006, Response RTT 4242 Average Response RTT 2209
2019-12-12 18:40:33.575 Detail, Node006, Refreshed Value: old value=false, new value=false, type=bool
2019-12-12 18:40:33.575 Detail, Node006, Changes to this value are not verified
2019-12-12 18:40:33.575 Info, Node006, Received Meter report from node 6: Power=0.852W
2019-12-12 18:40:33.575 Detail, Node006, Refreshed Value: old value=0.000, new value=0.852, type=decimal
2019-12-12 18:40:33.575 Detail, Node006, Changes to this value are not verified
2019-12-12 18:40:33.575 Detail, Node006, Notification: ValueChanged
2019-12-12 18:40:33.579 Warning, Exception: Manager.cpp:2499 - 102 - ValueID passed to GetValueFloatPrecision is not a Decimal Value
2019-12-12 18:40:33.579 Warning, Exception: Manager.cpp:2499 - 102 - ValueID passed to GetValueFloatPrecision is not a Decimal Value
2019-12-12 18:40:33.583 Detail, Node006, Notification: ValueChanged

firstof9 · December 13, 2019, 12:46am

Weird lag spike there. I’d disable the polling on the node since you technically shouldn’t need it, see if that helps at all.

jriker1 · December 13, 2019, 12:54am

I think it does it more with the dryer but still happens with the washer. Only thing I can think with this is sometimes the dryer is linking directly to the Z-Stick and other times it’s relinking to the Washing Machine Zooz device. The two zooz devices are literally next to each other.

firstof9 · December 13, 2019, 12:58am

Hard to say, really.

jriker1 · December 13, 2019, 12:59am

So there is no way that if you try and change a devices state and it immediately goes back that it can retry?

firstof9 · December 13, 2019, 1:02am

Once the message is “delivered” it doesn’t attempt to retry, per the log it looks like it got the message but apparently didn’t toggle.

jriker1 · December 13, 2019, 1:28am

Info you didn’t have, but I lifted the central bulb of the ZEN15 from behind my washer and laid them both on it. Not terribly low on the washer just about 3 inches down from the top of it. The look of those cables on top of the washer not looking very pretty right now. I think it’s responding better. That said if it’s receiving the info a slightly longer lag you would think it would still trigger right.

By the way, when a node isn’t talking directly to the stick but to it’s nearest neighbor any way to alter that? Especially since you know it’s nearest neighbor is touching each other and could easily reach the stick?

firstof9 · December 13, 2019, 1:32am

I’d think, but again we don’t know the secret sauce in their firmware

Nope those routes are created on pairing or when you do a network heal. You could give a network heal a shot it might re-route directly to the stick.

jriker1 · December 13, 2019, 1:42am

Then I guess based on the diagram above, which is annoying that device isn’t talking direct, I could in theory put the ZEN15 for the dryer dangling down behind the machine and only keep the washing machine ZEN15 on top of the washer no since the dryer one only talks to the ZEN15 for the washer?

firstof9 · December 13, 2019, 1:56am

Hard to say, radio waves are hard to see

jriker1 · December 14, 2019, 1:22am

I’m going to be installing one of a number of Leviton DZ15S-1BZ wall switches. We talked about this above a bit ago. Do you normally do these as secure or non secure? Not that it matters, more interested if light switches should or shouldn’t be secure, but it’s literally 4 feet away from the Z-Stick.

firstof9 · December 14, 2019, 1:46am

Non-secure, always non-secure unless required for extra functionality. Reviewing the manual for that switch there’s no special functions requiring a secure node.

jriker1 · December 15, 2019, 1:03am

I finished setting up the Leviton switch and it’s working well. Thank you super much. I have now moved onto two other switches in the basement. One just has two wires and that’s it so guess can’t do that one or need a GE switch.

The other one is a combination wall outlet and wall switch. I see or do not see depending on how you look at it, neutral white wire.

If it retains it’s original size should get big and glad to provide other pictures. Any idea how to replace the switch on the right with another Leviton switch? My red highlights are the hot. Comes from the outlet into the switch. The orange is the traveler/load to the light. I obviously have the other two wires in the power outlet. Are those then the standard white/neutrals? How should I deal with this bugger?

finity · December 15, 2019, 1:56am

yes, one of those wires to the outlet is going to be a neutral wire. Hopefully it’s white.

you can hook up the hot and neutral from the outlet to the switch then use the switched leg to go to the light from the switch.

jriker1 · December 15, 2019, 2:38am

From what I can tell there are two white wires going on the left side of the outlet no? Well they are both white once you get past the fact that apparently my last contractor painted half the wires with the wall paint. The two on the left of the switch. May be me but it looks like one of the white wires is bigger than the other.

finity · December 15, 2019, 2:09pm

Are one of those wires a ground wire per chance? usually the smaller of the wires in a romex bundle is the ground wire since it isn’t supposed to any any load current. But it’s also usually bare copper with no inner insulating coating.

If you pull back the tape on the outlet you will hopefully see that the smaller wire is going to the ground screw. Unless you are in the same strange situation that another person was in on here recently and there are no ground wires needed because they used rigid conduit all the way back to the main box as the ground. but I don’t see any conduit protruding into your 4x4 box so I doubt that’s the case.

Or possibly that other wire (if its not the ground wire that I hope it is…) is the neutral wire going to the same light that the switch controls.

Either way you are guaranteed to have an available neutral wire for a smart switch just because there is an outlet in the same box that has to have a neutral for it to work.

jriker1 · December 15, 2019, 2:19pm

No grounds and I think that person was me. My entire house is metal conduit with metal boxes and metal screws from the switches and outlets. Electrician said whole house is a ground or whatever so no ground wires. You can’t see the conduit as it drops in from above for this one.

From what I’ve seen and will be removing the tape today, most outlets have two hots on one side and two neutrals on the other. Two of each screw. So let’s say the two white wires on the left side of the outlet are neutrals, maybe being used as in and out or something. Should I be grouping those together and then run one wire to the outlet and one to the switch or chain them like they are doing for the hot from outlet to switch?

finity · December 15, 2019, 2:39pm

Ha, I think you’re right! There are so many threads going that it’s hard to remember who is who sometimes. especially since i’m old(er).

anyway…

It’s getting kind of complicated to try to explain what is going on because I’m not there pulling wires and doing the testing with a meter but it might be that the outlets are just being used as a junction point to feed power/neutral to the next outlet in the line.

What I mean is that it’s likely that one set of wires comes from the direction of the main box and the other set of wires goes to the next outlet in the series in another outlet box somewhere.

However, in this particular picture it looks like you have only two wires on the hot side of the outlet and one of those goes directly to the switch that then feeds the power to the light. The other has to be the hot from the main box. And that’s why I think that the other neutral might be feeding the neutral to the light that is fed from the switch. Otherwise I wouldn’t know what it’s purpose would be.

you can probably loosen one of the screws on the neutral side and put a third wire under the terminal plate that you will then connect to the neutral terminal on the smart switch. Then the hot that you have now going to the current switch will be the hot that you feed to the new smart switch and the output of the smart switch will use the same wire going to the light that in use now.

again, it’s hard to explain without being right there or trying to draw up an elaborate diagram to show you what I mean.

If you don’t fully understand what I’m saying then hire a qualified person to do the work.

There is no reason to hurt yourself or family by doing something unsafe with your electrical system.

jriker1 · December 15, 2019, 2:52pm

Here’s another view of the wiring that I took yesterday. You can see the neutral drops in from the top, into the outlet, and back up and out again or looks that way. I would assume it goes to the switch I was working on the other day, but who knows. Would seem that way.

Doesn’t look like the neutral ever goes to the switch anyway, but your last part makes total sense. Other than I’ve read it’s not usually good to loop multiple wires under the same screw. I know with my smart switch I did that but it had terminal clamps so technically could hook up four wires cleanly. One under each of the clamps on the two sides of the screw, one in the screw, and one a pushin on the back.

finity · December 15, 2019, 3:08pm

Of course, it depends on how your equipment is designed.

If you have just a screw with no terminal plate and the wire is wrapped around the screw itself then no you shouldn’t add any wires to it like that.

But it does look like from the latest picture that your outlet possibly has a hole on the back that you can push a wire into and screw down to connect.

But again, I will keep putting disclaimers in here…

I’m not there. I can’t see your stuff and how it’s connected or how it works now so I can’t tell you exactly what you need to do.

If you don’t understand what I’m saying hire somebody.