Ubuntu Install/setup

[diyhouse]

Hi Guys,… (yes Newbie),… Have installed Home assistant on a virtual m/c approx. 2 / 3 weeks ago,… discovered how the app works and the tools to talk to tasmota,… and MQTT install stuff,… and got yo a stage where I could control my sonoff.
I loved ( and appreciate ) the great work done by the team to get the app to where it is today… having got to a level of confidence where I wanted to role things out a little further,… I tried to install onto a clean install ubuntu both 18 and 20 LTS’s dedicated laptop m/c ( with a broken screen,. but still an i3),… but things had changed and looked nothing like I had before…
I understand the reasons for using docker to control the environments,… but the install scripts I previously used,… and have found else where now say they don’t work or are deprecated…
I have read/watched more youtube videos than I care to mention,… and have found a lot out,…
But fundamentally I have not found a formal way to install to a ubuntu docker environment,… yes I have found some notes about hasty decisions etc,… and under review.
But I have also found almost two types of install,… and I have to say I am really confused,… with options to load from esp8266 ( this looks great but not seen on previous install ),… and an internal MQTT app,… ( not mosquitoo),… confused
I have also found forum topics with some great install docs,… but alas I get to the crunch bit to install home assistant,… and it warns and stops about not being supported… ahh

Can someone pls explain do I use homeassistant or home.io,… is docker the way forward,… and how do I install to ubuntu server,… with a preinstalled docker environment,… as this seems to where the project is going,… unless I am missing the obvious…
rgds
Sorry for long talk,… but need some help/pointers. (please)
many tx guys for the great work…

[flamingm0e]

@diyhouse

Can someone pls explain do I use homeassistant or home.io

They want you to install on dedicated hardware (NUC or pi), or run Home Assistant Core in python venv or docker.

@diyhouse

is docker the way forward

Home Assistant (Full, not just Core) uses Docker.

@diyhouse

and how do I install to ubuntu server

You can use the “soon to be deprecated” linux installer script (you will need to modify the script to get around the “not supported” thing), or you can run a VM with HassOS, or you can run Core in python venv or Docker.

@diyhouse

with a preinstalled docker environment

Sounds like you want the generic linux install or Core in docker

@diyhouse

as this seems to where the project is going

It’s not actually. The project is heading the direction of a pure appliance solution. They want you to use HassOS.

[diyhouse]

Ah,. many tx for your response…but some more questions…

I would be quite happy to run Hass from within a docker environment,… but running on a ubuntu base,… pref ubuntu 20.04 server…

Home assistant:- what is the difference between ‘Full’ and ‘Core’,… what are these definitions referring to?

Sounds like you want the generic linux install or Core in docker

Not quite,… base ubuntu server (say 20.04),… with docker installed with hass running within docker,… with the caveat,… that it’s supported,… no point in going down an unsupported route…

[flamingm0e]

@diyhouse

what are these definitions referring to?

Home Assistant vs. Home Assistant Core

@diyhouse

with docker installed with hass running within docker,… with the caveat,… that it’s supported

Currently, Home Assistant Core in Docker is fully supported

Installation

Installation

The generic Linux installer is nothing more than a script and some service files, that start the “supervisor” docker container and the supervisor manages Docker. The supervisor manages bringing the “core” docker container, as well as any supporting containers online, updates, etc. With supervisor you get add-ons (these are docker containers that tie into HA. They are reproducible if you know your way around Docker and Linux) and snapshots (not needed if you know your way around the OS).

The blowback caused by the announcement has the team re-thinking their deprecation of it. When they say it’s not “supported” it means they will not work on bugs, enhancements, or issues reported. “Support” has pretty much been up to the community anyway, so I don’t understand the rub, or the issue here.

I use straight Home Assistant Core in Docker. I have a docker-compose stack that runs my home automation suite, and it has been working fine for over 3 years.

[diyhouse]

Ah many tx for the pointers,… I think I have discovered the ‘miss-understanding of my ways’,… I originally installed Home Assistant - Supervised, on a linux base,… when I next tried to re-install on my laptop,… this option was no longer available, ( depreciated ),… and the ‘docker’ install presented a different look and feel, with no ‘superviser’ option,… although it did give access to esp8266 add-on, ( this has got some really smart stuff,… is this an tasmoto upgrade. ,… but why is this not available in HA-supervised and apparently no mosquitto … rather than the tasmoto, mosquitto mqtt stuff… confusing…

Please why are things not consistent,… across the installs,… what is the rational for this,… I’m sure there is something I am missing,… is it control of the UI and stopping the average user tinkering with config,… docker limitations or something,… I’m just trying to get my head around building, managing, rebuilding, upgrading, backing up etc a system,… before I go the full monty,… as they say
Many tx again for the pointers
Rgds

[flamingm0e]

@diyhouse

although it did give access to esp8266 add-on

There are NO add-ons available in normal Home Assistant Core (docker or python/pip), so I have no idea what you mean by this.

@diyhouse

but why is this not available in HA-supervised and apparently no mosquitto

I don’t know what you are referring to. There are literally no add-ons available on a non-supervised install.

@diyhouse

Please why are things not consistent,… across the installs

Supervised or HassOS have add-ons and snapshots. The regular “CORE” does not. That’s it. There are NO DIFFERENCES between Home Assistant Core running in supervised or non-supervised. It’s the exact same Home Assistant Core used in both.

[diyhouse]

Very sorry for confusion,… ( and delay in getting back, been fixing leaky shed)…
The two screen shots,… I hope explain my confusion…
The 1st screen shot shows my original install,… which has a supervisor menu option,… as well as showing the two options I have installed,… Mosquitto and Tasmoadmin,… both of which I have found very useful,…
The 2nd screen shot then shows my later ( most recent) attempt to install,… but this time with no supervisor,… and different add-ons as far as I can see… and no links to tasmoadmin or anything similar…
What is the error of my ways? how do I get the supervisor option when I install,… I don’t mind installing into docker,… although a raw ubuntu install would be preferred…

many tx for your help…

[flamingm0e]

@diyhouse

and different add-ons as far as I can see

There are exactly ZERO add-ons when running just Home Assistant Core. Period. None. Zilch. Add-ons don’t exist.

@diyhouse

What is the error of my ways?

YOU INSTALLED HOME ASSISTANT CORE.

You didn’t install supervised.

@diyhouse

how do I get the supervisor option when I install

By literally using the supervised installer.

@diyhouse

although a raw ubuntu install would be preferred…

There is no such thing. Supervisor is a docker container. It requires docker. It is not possible to “install supervisor” on your current install. You would need to remove the venv and install the supervised version.

[diyhouse]

Many tx for your feedback,…
I was getting confused and miss-lead by what I thought were ‘full’ installs, not just core.

Why are there two variants… core only and core + supervised ??
So final question,. ( I hope for this thread),…
Where do I find a script etc to install hassio + superviser in a docker environment… running on Linux (perf. )20.04,… ( so no need to change the OS base for a few years hence…).

I have found several threads in pursuit of this same question but they are now defunct/ too old, following project changes re linux support etc.

[Anwen]

Installing Home Assistant Supervised on Ubuntu 18.04.4

This guide is now deprecated and will no longer be updated or maintained. It is highly recommended to follow the Debian 10 guide HERE to have a supported Supervised install. There is no need to use Ubuntu and continued changes being made to Home Assistant Supervised make its continued use at your own risk and it may fail to work at any time. Please do not post for support if you face an issue. Ubuntu 18.04 does not have the minimum version of network-manager required by for a Supervis…

[diyhouse]

Just to close out,… and give some comments,… this install works fine,… It really is quite simple,… and running under docker,… who cares and who would actually know,… its the end functionality that counts,… and as long as it can be supported and managed in a sensible way,… perfect everyone wins.
Appreciate the base OS is then the users responsibility,… that’s fine as some simple crontabs under root would fix that,… with probably a simple reboot once per week,… just to tidy things up,…
My only asks on the install script,… would be to be able to select the install / creation folder for docker,… and associated with that the location of the config files,… its just I would like to have the docker and config files stored on a none root folder/partition,… so not dependant on the installed OS,… and more easily backed up etc,… yes I know this can be done with other tools ,… but just my thoughts… but many tx for your help though,…
rgds

[hackerkatt]

@diyhouse

I’m waaay late to this party, but you are not alone in

I have to say I am really confused

It’s my personal opinion that Docker is the way to go. Having said that, not everybody understands Docker or how to use it. I much prefer it over a VM (VMWare, VirtualBox, LXC, etc) as any VM environment consumes more of your host’s resources than Docker. An “entire virtual computer” is created for each VM, with the exception of LXC. Although LXC is a bit heavier than Docker. Having said that, it’s certainly an option if your host’s resources allow for it. And I admit, I have several VM’s running. Docker on the other hand is much less resource demanding. It’s true that Docker Image size is a considering factor. But that’s much more manageable. Spinning up of a Docker Container is order or magnitudes faster than a VM too, within a few seconds. Then there’s the issue of passing USB Devices from the host to the VM Guest. It’s not always a simple and reliable exercise.

Now to the point of installation methods. I have posted on the form similar confusion related to the many installation methods, supported vs unsupported, VM vs Docker, Core w/o Add-ons vs Supervised w/ Add-ons. And after a year or so, still somewhat foggy.

Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t understand the “Core only” vs “Supervised w/ Add-ons” thinking. Or to have a “Supported” install w/ Add-ons one must deploy a VM. BTW, I recently tried this w/ VirtualBox Headless and have been unsuccessful in passing a USB Device for Z-Wave. Let me clarify, I understand the Supervised in the context of managing the entire “suite”. There certainly needs to be a framework to manage all the moving parts. I don’t, however, understand who would want to install just the Core. Perhaps someone else can elaborate on that use case. If one doesn’t want to “install/enable” an Add-on, don’t. But for those that do, they can. Not everyone who installs Microsoft Office uses PowerPoint.

Another peeve is that I personally don’t want to dedicate an entire computer resource to HA when I have perfectly good hardware resources available on my Ubuntu Server running Docker. One that already has been set up so as to easily manage backups, has an UPS, doesn’t require another switchport, etc. This also dovetails off of the changes in the hardware available these days and the sensible shift to better utilize those new hardware resources. Hence, many shops/organizations have completely revamped their deployments to use, yes VM’s, but more so in the last few years, Docker and Kubernetes. And for good reason. We no longer look to have to dedicate an entire bare metal server to one purpose. Or if a multi purpose server has a service bork the filesystem, I don’t have loose the other services running and thereby rebuild an entire server because of one service.

So me personally, I would love to see a Supported installation based on Core w/ Add-ons using Docker. But that’s my wish. I know there are other use fair cases and opinions.

Finally, if I understand your last comments relating to the supervised install directory… All you have to do is pass the --data-share option to redirect the install from the default location (/usr/share/hassio) to your desired location.

For example:
I set up all my servers to use a services-admin user. I install all my Docker services under that services-admin user in /home/services-admin/DockerServices. So to install in a location of my choosing (on an Intel or AMD x86_64), I would run:

curl -o hassio_supervised_docker_installer.sh -sL https://raw.githubusercontent.com/home-assistant/supervised-installer/master/installer.sh

chmod +x hassio_supervised_docker_installer.sh && ./hassio_supervised_docker_installer.sh --machine qemux86-64 --data-share /home/services-admin/DockerServices/home_assistant.

The Docker Supervised installation will be installed to /home/services-admin/DockerServices/home_assistant vs the default location.

Best