I’m not very happy with my thermostats (2 Ecobee 4’s) so I’m looking for alternatives. I love the look and (most of) the UI of the Nest (3rd Gen especially) but I don’t like Google nor its dependence on the cloud (by my understanding). Here’s what I think I’m looking for:
large, bright color screen in the middle (easily tell the current and set temp and if it’s heating or cooling)
rotate/scroll wheel on the outside of the unit (exactly like the Nest)
local API (I’m relatively okay with a cloud option, as long as it’s not Google, but I’d like a completely local option for when internet is unavailable so I can still control it on LAN)
What I really want to avoid:
touch screen (my Ecobees have become more fingerprint displays more than temperature indicators)
Has anyone come across something like that? I’m very open to tinker so if there’s a 3rd party firmware for the Nest I’m not aware of, that would frankly be ideal!
I love my Zen thermostats, but they do not meet your criteria. I will say, I don’t remember the last time I touched my thermostats given all zones are completely automated. What if you never had to touch it or interact with it again? Would your list of requirements change?
I dont even think about them anymore. They are just little plastic boxes on the wall, so they only need to look pretty while idle and be controllable through home assistant.
Very good point and questions. I tend to optimize my system for cost savings and make in the moment adjustments depending on where we are in the house (thus requiring that someone touch the thermostat or a smart device that can change the thermostat; proximity to the thermostat usually determines which is easier in the moment)
If I had room level presence detection then I would need to interact with the thermostat itself less, it would probably be a better experience, and I could do something more like what you’re suggesting
Do you have a thermostat for each room of your house?
If you only have one thermostat and you have to change it based on which room you are in, then you have other issues that sound like an unbalance system.
I have two major zones, upstairs and downstairs, each with their own thermostat. So it’s mostly a question of are we going to spend the evening upstairs or downstairs, and I haven’t figured out how to get that automation logic working for the difference between “ran down to the living room to grab something” and “stay in the living room to watch TV or read for the evening”
You need more sensors! I use a multisensor in each room for temp, humidity, and motion. And then I use other sensors for a better detection of room engagement. Like I have harmony hubs on all TV’s to know when we are in a room but sitting still.
All of this information feeds my automations for climate control. Presence, time of day, humidity, outside temperature, and room engagement all go into finding the perfect temperature at any moment.
Yes I do. What you have set up sounds brilliant and very much what I’m looking for. I’d love to see the formula you used for determining the perfect temperature.
I gave up on trying to make something elegant and instead pieced together my climate control over the course of a few years. I use node-red and find it incredibly easy to handle these complex automations (I really struggled to make this work in yaml). I also live in southeastern US, so most of the work has gone into finding comfort in our winter and spring months where it can go from 80degF and 100% humidity to 50degF and 50% humidity in a day or so.
Big picture, the house is either occupied or not. If not, then all set points go to some predefined away mode. If occupied, then the zones all have target temperatures based on the mode of operation and how we use the spaces throughout the day. I find that at any given time, I’m at most only 2 degF away from being comfortable at this given setpoint. That is, my best guess setpoint on any day may be 73degF, and what I’ve found is that no matter what, if I’m not comfortable at 73, then i probably would be at either 72 or 74. So I’m saying I find I only ever have to choose between 3 or 4 temperatures to find the perfect comfortable setting.
It turns out this is backed up by thermal comfort theory, too. Look at that page and you see comfort is a function of a whole lot of things, but for my family, given our predictable schedules, our expectations, and the thermodynamic behavior of our house, I’ve narrowed it down to inside temp, outside temp, and humidty. During the warm months, the higher the humidity the lower the set point and the lower the humidity, the higher the set point.
I haven’t nailed it for the winter months, but I’m finding that I need to increase the heating set point the hotter it is outside to stay comfortable.
This is outside, but I have also made sensors for dewpoint calculations inside the house.
I found that dewpoint is a better judge of what is ‘humid’.
There is also the ‘Feels Like’ method which is effectively similar.
As you can see below, that with 80% Relative Humidity outside that with the dew point at 41F it still feels dry outside.
I initially started with the full dewpoint equation but HA didn’t like to do all the math with the logarithms too well, so I went with the simplified equation which is good enough.
I love this. I’ll dive into it this weekend. I’m thinking creating an indoor comfort sensor for each zone and then referencing that in my climate automations.
I can post my dewpoint sensor when I get home if you need it.
I used the relatively ‘standard’ comfort levels for humidity but I find the higher end ‘somewhat dry’ to be comfortable so I am either going to expand the comfortable range or just make a new one like ‘comfortably dry’.
The colors I used for humidity are primarily for mold growth (not exactly but it makes sense).
The colors for temperature are somewhat arbitrary but this is where my family is comfortable.
### sensor.yaml or configuration.yaml
- platform: template
sensors:
laundry_dewpoint:
friendly_name: "Laundry"
value_template: >-
{% set h = states('sensor.laundry_humidity') | float %}
{% set t = states('sensor.laundry_temperature') | float %}
{{((t-32)*5/9-(100-h)/5)*9/5+32}}
unit_of_measurement: "F"
Just change ‘h’ for your humidity sensor and ‘t’ for your temperature sensor.
My declarations for the Comfort Level are in the other post.
Let me know if you need/want anything else.
