What sensor (Powermeter) is my choice?

Energy
1

Dear Community,

I am new here and very happy to have found this great community. I live in a house that is equipped with CCU3 (i.e. with Homematic and Homatic-IP devices partially).

I would like to connect the CCU3 to Homatic and am sure to find some tutorials here.

The question I have for you is this: I would like to record power consumption in more detail. I currently have two meters installed in the house (one is for normal household electricity, one is for the heat pump) and at the meter for household electricity I have a Homatic self-made device attached to the infrared sensor. However, I am still not happy with it and the visualisation via diagram in the CCU is a horror. I would like to do all this with Home Assistant. In the course of this, I would like to measure, record, graphically evaluate, etc. the following currents:

  1. heat pump current ~ 0-10 kW
  2. normal household current ~ 0-10 kW
  3. wallbox current (KEBA P-30 with excess charging and Lan connection) ~ 0-22 kW

1 and 3 are connected to the same meter. However, the KEBA wallbox also has an integrated electricity meter (I have not yet tried to what extent I can read it out, as I have not yet connected a LAN).

In the meantime, I find the devices from Shelly (actuators, …) quite good - yes, better than those from Homematic because they simply “radio” via the WLAN and I naturally have much better illumination (thanks to access points everywhere in the house) than with a radio connection to a CCU 3 in the middle of the house.

Which Shelly product would you recommend for my use case? I stumbled across the Shelly 4 proPM but also Shelly 3 EM solutions, but I don’t think I can cover all the services with it.

Would it be conceivable to simply connect the Shelly 3 EM to the 3 phases “just before the consumer” (e.g. sauna) if I want to track consumption here?

I am open to your suggestions, including alternatives to Shelly. My server cabinet is right next to the power distribution and I would even prefer a wired solution here in the basement.

The installation should be “simple” so that the electrician doesn’t present me with too big a bill.

I look forward to your answers. If I have a lot of time, I’ll ask about a good smart meter for the water supply - but I don’t want to overwork you now :slight_smile:

Many greetings, Franz

2

Hi @electronicfranz,

welcome here :slight_smile:
Having a working CCU is a good start :smiley: I’ve just switched from the Homematic Cloud to a “selfmade” CCU…

First thing I can recommend here is the following Integration provided by HACS (HomeAssistant Community Store)

  • Homematic(IP) Local
    this allows you, to connect to your CCU and it will provide all Devices you have installed in your CCU to HomeAssistant…

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So… now comming to your main questions:

It seems that an Integration for your Wallbox is already available… I don’t know, what it does support, since I am using an OpenWB…
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But I think, that integration should already provide the Meters from the Wallbox itself.
Maybe, there’s also an integration available for your Heatpump… since I don’t know what Heatpump you are using, I can’t check…

Ok… now to your Utility Meters:

I GUESS - with “and at the meter for household electricity I have a Homatic self-made device attached to the infrared sensor.” you mean the HM-ES-TX-WM" ?
Unfortunately, I am still waiting for this … I don’t know, when it will be delivered… so I can’t yet say what should be possible in HomeAssistant…

When it comes to measure “single devices” - I am using either the Homematic (IP) outlets - light-switches with meter - or for example MEROSS plugs…

All other information is comming from my Solar Inverter… (import, export, etc) … so the only thing really missing is the actual Reading from the Meter…

I hope, I can read the “zählerstand” with the HM-ES-TX-WM… that’s my goal… I don’t want to read the meter manually every year :smiley:

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Hi Chris, thank you very much for your warm welcome and quick answer! :slight_smile:
I am happy, that I am not alone here with a CCU3 and I am sure, I will find here some tricks and tutorials. I want to connect the CCU3 asap… but I think I must install in the first steps the “driver” to the CCU 3 and update the CCU3 itself. (I love updates but during the heating-period I am always a little bit affraid to “shot” on my house-automation with an update… “never touch a running system”). :wink:

Thank you for this research as well! I know, there are tons of integrations around -looking forward to try this one after installing HA to my Raspy, after patching the network-cable in the garage, …) :smirk:

Correct! This is “my device”. But after many detail settings, I still haven’t managed a really nice evaluation with it via the CCU3. Let alone live data display, monthly automatic evaluation, etc… I am pleased that you are also dedicating yourself to this topic. You can save time in advance by compiling the necessary settings that must correspond to your meter. We stay connected! :wink:

Sure! I do this too. But they are just able to measure “low energy flows”. As you know I want to monitor my 3 “big” consumption points (with 3 phases).

Thank you so much,
looking forward to read some news about this topic and would love to stay in Touch for the HM-ES-TX-WM!

All the best, have a nice weekend, Franz

PS: Ich habe gerade eben an Deinem Screenshot gesehen, dass Du auch deutsch sprichst :sweat_smile:

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yes, I already thought that you “could be” german… Homematic does indicate that most of the time :smiley:
But since the official language here is english, I stick to it… so others might have a benefit from the conversation, too :slight_smile:

If you want, you can also PM me… if you have some specific questions that might be easier to reply / discuss in german ^^

My recommendation regarding the measuring of your “big” devices is still:
Check, if there’s an integration for your Heatpump.
It COULD be, that this does also provide some energy measurements…

Since I don’t have any of the Shelly Energy Meters, I can’t really talk about them, but another option could be a Modbus SmartMeter.
This is a utility meter that will be installed in your electric installation… so you could read the meter directly - and implement it into home Assistant.

Measuring the devices independently from each other would also be a benefit for the Energy Dashboard in HomeAssistant, because then, you can display each device:

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Unfortunately, my Wallbox will be measured with the meter from the Solar-Installation… so I only have the total consumption here… (and I don’t see if it was the oven, or charging the car…)

The other devices (colors) here aren’t attached to the energy meter from the solar - so I can show them as seperate devices here.

If you do measure the total consumption, you could still use the “list seperate devices” option… but then, it will not be splitted in the graph here… (by the way… why not? since we do have the data, it should be possible to calculate :smiley: → creating a FR)

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Dear Chris, [german version below]

thx a lot for your message. I am not able to write you a PM… maybe because I am to new to this community?

It would be very helpful for me to get in connection to you. Especially I have questions about “the move” from CCU 3 to Raspberry-Matic with the goal to use it at the end with Home-Assistant. I found very good threads like Home Assistant on HomeMatic CCU3 (but I am not able to write Fedor, too) and the hardware-stick solution " Homematic IP RF-USB-Stick für alternative Steuerungsplattformen HmIP-RFUSB".

So far I have found posts that say you can access the old, existing CCU3 directly with HA - in others I read that it should already be Raspberry-Matic. So I am a little confused. I would hate to provoke an “unpleasant” situation in winter now (heating controlled via CCU 3) :slight_smile: [Therefore, synchronous operation would still be fine at the beginning]. I’m also afraid that with a completely new system such as Raspberry-Matic, I would have to re-learn, connect, link etc. ALL sensors and actuators (Homematic-IP and Homematic). At the time, our electrician had initially done this and I never touched it again and would have to climb into all the flush-mounted sockets - more of a no-go for me.

We also have to stay in contact with our meter sensor. I would be interested to know how you do it. I’m still thinking about whether I should have HA compatible sensors like Shelly’s built into the distribution cabinet (insurance…) OR whether I should first see if you can get it to work. Tapping the meter would have the advantage that it is an exact measured value, the readout unit is much cheaper (via IR interface from the meter) and no conversion in the sub-distribution box is necessary. I could probably also calculate a data collection for the heating current at meter two (heating current and wallbox) if I say: amount of current heat pump = total amount of current meter heating current - amount of current wallbox (read out via Keba integration).

As you can see, there are still too many questions to get started. Many greetings, Franz

---------- german ---------------

Ich habe bisher Beiträge gefunden, die sagen man kann direkt auf die alte, bestehende CCU3 zugreifen mit HA - bei anderen lese ich heraus, dass es schon Raspberry-Matic sein sollte. Daher bin ich ein wenig verunsichert. Ich würde ungern im Winter jetzt (Heizung via CCU 3 gesteuert) evtl. eine “ungute” Situation provozieren :slight_smile: [Daher wäre ein Synchronbetrieb am Anfang schon noch fein]. Ich befürchte auch, dass ich bei einem vollkommen neuen System wie z.B. Raspberry-Matic ALLE Sensoren und Aktoren (Homematic-IP und Homematic) neu anlernen, verbinden, verknüpfen usw. müsste. Das hatte damals initial unser Elektriker gemacht und ich habe es nie wieder angefasst und müsste in alle Unterputzdosen klettern -eher ein NoGo für mich.

Wir müssen auch bzgl unserem Zähler-Sensor in Kontakt bleiben. Würde mich schon interessieren, wie Du das dann machst. Ich überlege noch immer, ob ich mir HA kompatible Sensoren wie z.B. von Shelly in den Verteilerschrank bauen lasse (Versicherung…) ODER ob ich erstmal schaue, ob Du es zum laufen bekommst. Ein Abgreifen am Zähler hätte den Vorteil, dass es ein exakter Messwert ist, die Ausleseeinheit viel billiger ist (via IR-Schnittstelle vom Zähler) und kein Umbau im Unterverteilerkasten notwendig ist. Vermutlich könnte ich dann ja auch beim Zähler zwei (Heizstrom und Wallbox) eine Datenerhebung für den Heizstrom rechnen lassen wenn ich sage: Strommenge Wärmepumpe = Gesamt Strommenge Zähler Heizstrom - Strommenge Wallbox (via Keba-Integration ausgelesen).

Du siehst, zu viele Fragen noch um bereits happy loszulegen. Viele Grüße, Franz

6

Hi,

I’ve sent you an PM :slight_smile:

1 Like
7

Short update to close, in case the topic interests anyone else who researches it later:

The solution was to simply install two Shelly 3em in the basement and read them with HA. With a small entry in the yaml you can cumulate the three phases each to one value and “do” quite a lot with it :slight_smile:

Irritating was for me with 3em always the specification of the maximum load to be switched. This is completely irrelevant for the measurement. One COULD only additionally switch something with it… E.g. the contactor of a heat pump or similar.

Thank you! Franz

----german version below----
Kurzes Update zum Abschließen, falls das Thema noch jemanden anderen interessiert, der es später recherchiert:

Die Lösung war, einfach zwei Shelly 3em im Keller zu installieren und diese mit HA auszulesen. Mit einem kleinen Eintrag in die yaml kann man die drei Phasen jeweils zu einem Wert kumulieren und damit recht viel “machen” :slight_smile:

Irritierend war für mich bei 3em immer die Angabe der maximal zu schaltenden Last. Diese ist für die Messung vollkommen irrlelevant. Man KÖNNTE nur noch zusätzlich damit etwas schalten… Z.B. den Schütz von einer Wärmepumpe oder ähnlichem.

Dankeschön! Franz