Which is the best linux distro for HA Core?

[WallyR (Wally)]

I prefer VMware and Proxmox over VirtualBox too.
Virtualbox seems like a cheap consumer product to me.
In generally I would not recommend running HA on a Windows based supervisor, not even Hyper-V, because HA setups often use USB devices and hypervisors often come in conflict with the Windows kernel over USB pass throughs.

[risa2000]

@aceindy

apt-get install python3 python3-dev

BeginnersGuide/Download - Python Wiki

I guess I know how to install packages on Debian . I just thought that running this exact command will install Python 3.11 (which I understood is the “canonical” version for this Debian version). But I have no Debian at hand to actually check it, so I might just misread things.

[risa2000]

@WallyR

I prefer VMware and Proxmox over VirtualBox too.
Virtualbox seems like a cheap consumer product to me.

I plan to use Proxmox to be exact on the new N100 box.

[aceindy]

I started with Hyper-V, which indeed has an issue with USB.
For a while I ran Ziggbee2MQTT on the host (overcoming that issue), but since VMWare did support USB, I switched to the Z2M addon (again out of lazyness, as the supervisor now takes care of updating it )

[WallyR (Wally)]

There should be many guides on the forum for supervised installations, since that is a requirement for that install type.
I think I added a repository to debain first and then it was just the apt commands.

[Tinkerer (aka DubhAd on GitHub)]

@WallyR

No, also for a core install.

https://github.com/home-assistant/architecture/blob/63f1d0c7ad23bfd99da90528ba83750e3c27f2f3/adr/0016-home-assistant-core.md

Supported Operating Systems and versions

• All major Linux distributions, latest stable and major versions.
• Windows; only using WSL.
• macOS; Python via Homebrew.

Absolutely nothing there about Debian

@WallyR

That is exactly why I suggested Debian, because it will minimize if not even eliminate the dependency problems.

No, it won’t eliminate them. There’s plenty of times when HA moves to a new version of Python before Debian. There’s also been challenges around other libraries (eg ffmpeg).

[Tinkerer (aka DubhAd on GitHub)]

@risa2000

@Tinkerer For what concerns the Docker, I am not at all familiar with tech, but somehow understood that getting the same setup I described above would be difficult (as the Docker image is basically baked in snapshot), but I may be wrong.

I used to use Core - I’ve been using *nix for decades now.

Docker just makes it easy. Pull the new image, recreate the container with it.

I now use Docker for everything - HA, Mosquitto, Zigbee2MQTT, etc, etc, etc. I’m never going back

[WallyR (Wally)]

Ok, so it will have dependency issues at times, but it should still be the most compatible.
I am not saying that other variants of Linux cant be used.

[parautenbach (Pieter Rautenbach)]

@risa2000

On RPi I was on Raspbian bullseye, but I have checked and bookworm is also only on Python 3.11 (officially).

So do you guys run an experimental version of Debian, or do you use some 3rd party package repos?

This has been becoming a serious problem on RPi because of its armv71 arch, I had to build most of the packages locally (including Python 3.12), but maybe for more ubiquitous x86-64 it is not a problem?

I run true, stable Debian versions only. Back in the day, I did run on a Pi, but I had too many dependency issues outside of HA, like running ffmpeg properly. Like you, I’ve had to build some packages locally.

[risa2000]

@Tinkerer

I now use Docker for everything - HA, Mosquitto, Zigbee2MQTT, etc, etc, etc. I’m never going back

Just to be sure - maybe stupid question - but by “I now use Docker for everything” you mean you create one Docker image with all those parts included, or you have separate Docker images for each one?

And when doing upgrades (of any component) you just recreate the corresponding Docker image?

[Tinkerer (aka DubhAd on GitHub)]

Separate containers for each:

CONTAINER ID   IMAGE                                                     COMMAND                  CREATED         STATUS                  NAMES
8773318ce712   eclipse-mosquitto:2                                       "/docker-entrypoint.…"   2 days ago      Up 2 days (healthy)     mosquitto
5d470fc6da57   lscr.io/linuxserver/piper:latest                          "/init"                  7 days ago      Up 7 days               piper
965ef3feb6a3   amir20/dozzle:latest                                      "/dozzle"                7 days ago      Up 7 days               dozzle
0c275eeb805c   ghcr.io/home-assistant/home-assistant:stable              "/init"                  2 weeks ago     Up 2 weeks (healthy)    homeassistant
68bce9aa0f7f   caronc/apprise:latest                                     "/opt/apprise/webapp…"   5 weeks ago     Up 5 weeks              apprise
f40eeacf35a3   ghcr.io/blakeblackshear/frigate:stable                    "/init"                  5 weeks ago     Up 43 hours (healthy)   frigate
92d0f429cb7c   koenkk/zigbee2mqtt:1.39.0                                 "docker-entrypoint.s…"   2 months ago    Up 2 months (healthy)   zigbee2mqtt
1f194cde69ff   crazymax/diun:latest                                      "diun serve"             6 months ago    Up 6 months             diun
bc082c1b5204   ghcr.io/rafhaanshah/container-mon:latest                  "./app"                  9 months ago    Up 9 months             container-mon
...

At update time it’s just:

docker compose pull homeassistant
docker compose up -d homeassistant

(replacing homeassistant with the container being updated

Container healthchecks allow me to be notified (via container-mon) if a container becomes unhealthy:

  homeassistant:
    container_name: homeassistant
    image: "ghcr.io/home-assistant/home-assistant:stable"
    restart: unless-stopped
    volumes:
      - /data/homeassistant/.homeassistant:/config
      - /data/apprise/:/data/apprise
      - /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/London:/etc/localtime:ro
    network_mode: host
    # Wait up to 2 mins for shutdown
    stop_grace_period: 2m
    healthcheck:
      test: ["CMD", "curl", "-fs", "-S", "--max-time", "2", "http://localhost:8123/"]
      interval: 30s
      timeout: 10s
      retries: 3

[risa2000]

Just for the record, here is the answer to my question about the Python 3.12 installation on Debian (bookworm).

It comes from the 3rd party repo, but have binaries for the most popular platforms, apart from x86-64, also for armv7 or arm64 .

[callifo]

I build my own, as Debian never keeps up with the version HA needs to run.

Once the venv is built, I just run an update script whenever a new version comes out. Moving between venv versions of python these days is pretty simple, done it so many times.

[parautenbach (Pieter Rautenbach)]

@callifo

I build my own, as Debian never keeps up with the version HA needs to run.

HA Supervised is only supported to run on Debian, so why would this be different for HA Core? What I mean is: If HA Supervised is literally guaranteed to run on Debian, why wouldn’t HA Core?

[Tinkerer (aka DubhAd on GitHub)]

@parautenbach

HA Supervised is only supported to run on Debian, so why would this be different for HA Core?

Supervised only works on Debian

Core works on any Linux (that has the right library versions)

[parautenbach (Pieter Rautenbach)]

I know, but that’s not my point.

Callifo claimed that Debian doesn’t keep up, but Debian is good enough for Supervised – and officially supported. Their claim seemed to be without justification.

[Tinkerer (aka DubhAd on GitHub)]

@parautenbach

Callifo claimed that Debian doesn’t keep up, but Debian is good enough for Supervised – and officially supported. Their claim seemed to be without justification.

That’s because you’re not seeing how different those two methods are.

• Supervised depends on a number of packages, including Docker and systemd. Those packages have to be the relevant version for it to work.

• Core runs on Python. Your Python install depends on dozens of OS packages, like FFMPEG. All of those have to exist, and be in the right range of versions, and Python must be built against them.

Supervised is managed to run on the documented version of Debian.

Core is not. Core is developed against the relevant versions of packages to make it performant and stable. That means it often is ahead of what Debian (or any OS) ships with. Python 3.13 will be a requirement before most OSs ship it, FFMPEG was bumped before most OSs shipped that new version too, etc etc.

They ship container images that include the required versions. For Core it’s on you to ensure that you manage that.

TL/DR: You’re comparing a mod kit for a Mk6 VW Golf to a kit car where you have to source or make half the parts yourself.

[parautenbach (Pieter Rautenbach)]

@Tinkerer

Core runs on Python. Your Python install depends on dozens of OS packages, like FFMPEG. All of those have to exist, and be in the right range of versions, and Python must be built against them.

I’m familiar with this – in particular building FFMPEG for this purpose. I run HA Core myself (and not Supervised).

The bit I didn’t know was that Supervised used Docker:

@Tinkerer

Supervised depends on a number of packages, including Docker and systemd.

So, with this in mind, I can see how such an installation is better buffered against resolving difficult dependencies, making the need for a specific Debian version for the Core part basically irrelevant, but the Supervised components are tightly tied to it. Each have their set of dependencies, and those aren’t the same.

Thanks!

[risa2000]

I believe the “dependency creep” is an unfortunate strategy. I can see why it appeases to the devs - breaking dependencies and breaking the system at a whim, but it will backlash in the long term.

Anyway, Debian it is, pulling (or building) external deps should not be a problem on the new hardware. I am however caution about how things turn out. It seems that over the past few years the focus from open and flexible started to shift to closed and locked.

[callifo]

As explained above, it was mainly Python. Current Debian python version = 3.11. Minimum HA python version required = 3.12.

I run Python 3.12 which I compile myself for each new 3.12.x version. When HA moves to 3.13 eventually, I will just build a new 3.13 venv and migrate over.