Automating on itself is NOT a nerd thing at all! I work as an Architect and the connection between the physically built environment and the digital sphere is THE upcoming field of developement. In a matter of years the average John Doe will expect to fully control his home from his phone/watch/voicecommands. Saying that nowadays “automating equals programming” is like saying “text editing equals markup language” some thirty years ago. Sure that was correct back then but nowadays my 70-year old mom happily uses Word without an issue. And just like text editing, home automation can, and will be poured into a simple, polished GUI (Node-Red is a step into that direction) so that my then 75-year old mom will as well be using it.
What i am trying to say: hassio as of now is the technically most advanced system, but usability-wise it is quite behind any commercial competitor. If it would catch up it could however become the dominating system and i would love to see that happen, because open source is a strong argument - especially once you start “inviting” software into your home!
Btw.: I love the analogy of the small man speaking only chinese! However i disagree on the agument. The small man (aka. the software running on the small box) has to learn English (or any other language in the world for that matter)! That is exactly what software-usability is all about: The dev has to make the effort, so that the user doesn’t., else the product will inevitably fail.
Well when strictly speaking about usability i’d say e.g. Hue, Smart Things, Aqara are pretty simple - of course they are technically far behind HA, but much more accessible: Plug in the Hub, download the app, off you go.
I am not saying this should be the case e for HA, since this clearly is aimed at much more sophisticated set-ups, but as of now i feel it is overly complicated to even just get it up and running!
I would like to point out that computers have been taught a language an in my analogy it’s Chinese (not literal just figuratively) they actually speak in one’s and zero’s. We then moved that onto assembler and then higher languages. Inherently you want definitive responses by giving vague input in a pigeon dialect.
Your example oh hue paraphrases the vcr mindset wher you only have 3 things to do but you then compare it to HA where you could have a million and 3. They are not equivalent.
You suggest architects will soon have access to much simpler creative media that will transform the visualisation, trialing and construction of projects - remind me, what do these buildings cost, how much is at stake getting the client to see your vision and not the other guys ? - So how much does the software cost and what did you pay for HA?
You think it is easy, but you are no where near the sharp end.
If it’s so easy to do, you program it, obviously it can be done in nodered.
Edit continuing the language thing, your firm is pitching a 60 storey block to a new client, you are ill on the day but its fine, you just drag a guy in off the street, give him the drawings, the specs and cos he speaks the same language as the client. He asks for the 300 million and everything will be good and you all live happily ever after.
I dont want o get into the cloud vs. self-hosted discussion here, but 90% of users unfortunately don’t care about that or actually prefer cloud-based options because they require less set-up. So in terms of usability for the general public, cloud-based services are unfortunately what HA has to compete with. And even for me who is actually interested in tech the set-up process almost got me to the point where i threw the Pi out the window. Maybe a cloud-based version of HA would actually make it easier to get started…
There’s a massive difference between ‘remote control’ and automation.
Automation-wise the Hue app can turn lights on and off by time and by presence, that’s about it. This can equally be done easily with home assistant’s automation builder.
If you want different colours at different times based on weather and average age of the current occupants, then the only option is to code it yourself.
People think that because they have lights they can turn on via Alexa they have ‘automation’. They don’t, they have remote control lights. Automation should work in the background so everything just works around you. To do this you need to code it.
It was not my intention to step on anyones toes here and I never said i knew how to code itbetter - i don’t. I have the greatest respect for the incredible work people are putting into HA. All i am saying that all that ingenuity currently is not reachable for 99% of people because is is way too complicated and that is a shame! I clearly said i was only talking about the GUI-sied of things, the technical superiority of HA is out of the question. And while there is indeed some very expensive Software used in Architecture there are a few open-source programs that rank among the best.
Oh you are absolutely right of course - the way it is now (at least unless you include IFTTT) these systems are extremely stupid, thats why i threw them out and bought a Pi.
However Node-Red proves that there are indeed alternatives to coding, that can make automations understandable in a GUI and there are many other great examples of visual programming. LEGO even had one that was easy enough for kids to learn (I did when i was 12 years old), so i think there sure will be a way my mom at some point will be able to make her own automations. However I think the biggest adversary of this development is the mindset of “automating equals programming”, because it doesn’t!
i am sorry to tell you, but i guess it depends on what person you are.
i know a lot of people (incl. myself) that couldnt make a light go on with Node-Red.
in my eyes configuring HA is about 1000 times easier then Node Red
Yes absolutely - i care about that too. However that is a confirmation bias, because if you would care about that you wouldn’t install it in the first place. So obviously all HA users care about it, else they would not be users
I’m not saying HA should lose the self-hosted version, not at all! But maybe a could-based version could be a great way of making it accessible for people who wanna get into it without the commitment or “just want it to work” (like most people do when it comes to tech stuff)
Yeah well that might be true, I mean i have been doing architectural projects in Grasshopper / Rhino for years and when you look at that piece of software you’ll understand why i feel at home with node-red. I have to agree with you however that node red is not easy to handle at all, i am still scratching my head about quite a few things. All i mean to say is that there are ways of pouring that coding-centric approach into a GUI, however i also don’t think node-red is the definitive answer to that. Generally having the option to choose from different approaches on one platform is great of course, its just that currently there is no option for the “i want an easy but smart home”-people in HA.
Well i meant tech as in computers in general. When it comes to that, most people just want a iPad that always works and does the stuff they want it to do, these people are currently limited to “stupid” systems like e.g. Hue. Looking at the potential HA has that is a pity.
My Girlfriend for example is absolutely amazed by my HA and all the things it can do. Now she wants some of it at her place too. She also wants an artificial sunrise in her bedroom and she wants the coffee machine to be done when she comes out of the shower and lots of things more. But she sure will not be abled to set up HA on a Pi, let alone program any kind of automation in YAML and she sure as hell would never spend multiple days to try and figure it out!
there is no easy smart home. not at all, and it never will be.
a smart home is extreme complex. and depending on the situations even for the smartest people around us a brainbreaker.
and thats where it all goes wrong. people expect an app on their mobile, want to buy whatever they want and the app makes their home smart.
that isnt a smart home at all. what you do with an app is configure a remote. that has nothing to do with smart.
there really doesnt exist a program that makes a home smart on its own. and i think there will never be such a thing at all, unless you are willing to let it install by a company and just use the appliances that they produce.
if you cant download something and put it on an SD card and stick that in a pi, then no then you cant use HA.
but its a simple 9 step procedure that even tells you as 1 of the steps to power up the PI.
how simple do you want it to be made?
sorry, but if people cant do that, then i wonder how they use a phone.
The same was said about pretty much any technology ever. There were “smartphones” long before the iPhone, only they were expensive, annoying to maintain, there was no software and no synchronisation services for them. Then came Apple and did it right - and all of a sudden everybody wanted it because it was shiny, easy and accessible. I am pretty certain that this is possible for Home Automation and will become a reality within a few years.
if it is possible, then it will be exactly as with the smartphone.
people will own it, but that doesnt make it smart.
a smartphone that is just used as a phone, isnt a smartphone
its the user that makes a smartphone smart, and most people dont.
Well that part indeed is pretty easy, but actually getting HA to do anything, recognise devices, integrations, talk to other services or the internet has been insanity for me. Took me two days and quite some fiddling in configurations.yaml and two complete re-installs just to force HA to talk to my Raspbee-Shield. And it went on from there, with custom components, node-red, synology integration, Phoscon all being anything but easy…
