@balloob @frenck @Bram_Kragten if there is a feature/epic in the roadmap to introduce programmatic configuration via an API that the GUI is also using I am willing to also contribute to that and add man power for the implementation.
Thanks in advance your kind reply.
How would you see that working - most of the configurations are multiscreen/procedural. Or are you thinking of some sort of data file that could be imported to ingest configurations on a new deployment?
Well anything that is a bit more M2M. For example there are custom components that call other components async_setup directly so there are ways to bypass the Config Flow, but it would be nicer to do it officially not out of desperation. @troykelly what do you mean by multiscreen btw ?
I’m thinking of things like the onvif plugin - it’s such an incredibly painful process - especially when HA is on a seperate subnet from the cameras.
By multiscreen I mean multistep processes.
I’m trying to think of ways that this could be solved, without the buy-in of the core HA developers who’ve made their position on editable, documented, file based configuration very clear.
I think @rjulius23 is onto something - if there is an api to add (& remove?) integrations and devices that would be ideal.
Sorry. However the link gave me:
try this one for the full set (sorry seems i cant directly point to point 16)
This thread is like any other thread, same rules apply for everyone.
I fully understand your sorrow. Move away from the YAML configuration is in my opinion and from my perspective, the worst decision HA devs made in last few years, since i started using it. I dont believe that GUI configuration benefits the end-user in any way - doing things in YAML is easier, faster, more fail-proof and as experience shows allowed users to configure more things. Some integration, for example Speedtest.net, lack crucial features since they’ve been migrated to UI config, like choosing the geographically closest server for measurement. UI only shows a choice of few servers - the closest is 50 miles from my place, while YAML config allowed choosing any of the thousands of Speedtest servers around the world.
Anyhow, ive been very vocal about it, but if UI config is easier to maintain for them than YAML configuration then there’s not much i can do about it and i have just accepted it.
If they will ever change their mind i will be super-happy about it, but until then there’s no point in constantly complaining. After all, even with UI config, HA is still a great tool i couldnt live without.
Not for the new target audience (non-tech savy people, like your parents or the average joe that is used to not write code and configure everything through clicking around in the UI)
That’s the best you can do, I also dislike the decision, but I learned to live with it.
I have accepted the decision, I am just interested in a solution having a programmatic UI or a proper M2M backend for the GUI would not impact the non tech savy, but at least help the tech savy. Honestly open source will for a long time be for tech savy. In Home Automation for sure due to the quickly changing technologies and commercial products are more than enough for non tech savy. We have been contacted by commercial partners to jump in and provide solutions for niche requests. And we used HA so far as it is higly flexible. However doing larger projects is becoming more and more tedious as we cannot easily store configuration as a code due to increasing GUI integrations. I dont want to start something new if it is already in the HA backlog. The linked rules pages is iseless for this case. How can I promote an Epic and if accepted I can work on it.
non-tech savy people, like your parents or the average joe that is used to not write code and configure everything through clicking around in the UI
That’s controversial because non-tech users like my parents or average joe are scared of HA not because they dont know how to configure it, but because whole idea of “smart homes” is terrifying for them and also they believe they dont need any automation in their lives.
I offered my parents all the equipment and setup/configuration of HA in their home and still they didnt want to hear about it.
What kind of thing are you trying to configure. Is it the same thing on many machines?
This was suggested by someone in the original thread regarding the deprecation. He even provided code and ideas to have both. But the core devs were and are not interested in this, they made their decision and are not willing to maintain YAML and UI, or some converter or anything like this, UI or nothing.
I agree, but the HA core team clearly wants to make HA appealing to the masses.
It’s not in the HA backlog, as the core devs don’t want to have it and they will also not accept any PRs regarding this.
The linked page are the rules, they are definitely not useless. Go to Github for discussions like this, but I can assure you that you will hit a wall. The decision has been made, the core devs will just close your topics and link you to the decision.
That’s definitely not true, there are so many average joes that use SmartThings, Philips Hue or other “smart” tech nowadays. I’m very active on this forum and I see almost daily a post from a user switching from any of these platforms, who want to have a smart home, but not write code.
Also I did not make that decision, I would have preferred to keep YAML config as well.
True, many “average Joe’s” have Philips Hue, Nest or Google Home nowadays, but from my experience (and since i’ve been a huge advocate of smart home at my workplace, i spoke about this with dozens of average Joes at work) they just use them in a pre-set scenarios like asking Google Home whats the weather outside, or controlling Hue lights with a phone. Often after a couple of weeks they stop doing even that, when they realize that its easier to just flip the switch instead of taking out the phone, run an app and worry that someone else switched the light off on the physical switch. I highly doubt if any of those “average Joes” at my place ever made a custom routine in Google Home.
Actually, i have managed to get only one, quite tech-savvy person on HA board and it was a rocky road - this is only slightly relevant, as it’s about automation editor, not integrations - but over an IM communicator, its way easier to explain someone how to make an automation or share existing working automation in YAML, than to do the same with UI automation editor.
Im feeling bad about using a term “average Joe” as it sounds somewhat pejorative to my ear. Im far from treating home automation as some kind of elitarian hobby - on the contrary, im a noob myself and still doing my best to help others to jump onto this boat - but what im trying to say, that the best way for a new person to enter the world of home automation is through someone who can help.
Automations are still fully supported in yaml
FWIW I’ve had snapshots fail multiple times to the point where I don’t rely on them any more. I last had it occur at the end of November - it appears to be this bug.
Typically the database is corrupted in snapshots. Restore delete database and you’re good to go. If you separate the DB then you won’t ever run into that problem. That’s how I run and I’ve never had issues.
I am expecting I need to move to this method. As far as I have been able to figure out there is no officially supported backup / restore method using the default database in use. If there is that I’ve missed I would appreciate it if someone could point to it for me. Note: I am using docker install so OS install specific solutions wont work. As the Docker/Container setup is still officially supported I would hope the answer is not “figure it out on my own”.
It would be good if there was an API into the configuration machinery that could be used to enumerate the current configuration and also be used to add/delete persistent state that lives in the
.config/directory.
On a similar thread, I didn’t follow the whole YAML depreciation in some cases topic and understand it is a sore subject for some people. What I am however is curious if there was a discussion of API first theory what MANY solutions are adopting and then having the GUI use the API instead of directly changing things. I don’t know how the overall dev process works for this project right now but is there a thread along those lines I could contribute to either in discussion or if available development time? I would love to see a solution that scales and allows for separation of concern between a UI and underlying functionality.
The database corruption and the usual solution to just delete it is my biggest bugbear with HA. No other software system that I know of requires users to just throw away their precious data as a solution.
