DO I have news for you! You can write the entirety of HA’s config in JSON.
Yaml accepts both json, and yaml, and a mix of the 2. All 3 are valid yaml showing the same data structure:
yaml
some_random_yaml:
- x: 1
y: 2
json
some_random_yaml: [{"x":1, "y":2}]
some odd mix
some_random_yaml: [{x:1, y:2}]
Thanks! I didn’t actually realize we could do that in the config file!
With that said, I was mainly using that to point out that even though I would prefer JSON myself, you’re trading one set of quirks [spaces] for another [brackets, commas & braces mainly] and it’s not going to necessarily going to be a better for a newer user because it all looks like gobblygook unless you already know what you’re looking at (and even then, the yaml is more ‘human readable’ if the data set gets long enough [without manipulating the data or opening it in a 3rd party app]).
Just trying to point out that for every instance of something being better for one person, it doesn’t mean it’ll be better for another 
yeah it will simplify things once we start posting json interleaved with yaml 
I expect new category of jokes this time about scripting in HA. only Chuck Norris can do that.
Oh people did for years in the early days. 2016/2017, always confused the crap out of people. I wouldn’t be surprised if it still exists in people configurations because they copied these old examples that still work.
yeah… I remember html mixed with php, css, sql in single line…
why to follow those bad patterns?
You accused people on the forum as being against NR, which was what I opposed. It’s simply not true, given the forum even caters for it. Personally, I don’t think NR is a simple alternative for newcomers, since now people need to deal with the apparent confusion between add-ons and integrations, a second piece of software, another set of nomenclature, and so forth. So, I don’t think NR is the way for newcomers, but I have nothing against it. Given newcomers will start with simpler tasks, HA’s built-in automation UI editor should be more than sufficient.
Actually, with light actions (formerly) services you might still see this, especially when providing colour values, e.g. rgb_color: [23, 45, 67].
Proper YAML would be (as I know you know, but just showing it):
rgb_color:
- 23
- 45
- 67
then get rid of those uncertainty making it integral part of the HA and the main tool for automation.
I know it never gonna happen. But you are exposing obstacles and I respond with possible solution.
You’re suggesting (jokingly of course) that people shouldn’t have a choice of whether or not to use a particular option, or so it seems. Not everyone needs the power of Node-RED, so the default UI should remain.
not at all. I’m the first voting for multiple options.
I’m suggesting to make NR a core automation tool, and give people an option in form of yaml/jinja
OK, but now you’ve changed your argument. I understood you to argue that at present it should be encouraged as the best option.
Sharing is such a nuisance in Node Red. Copy and paste json into your own instance of NR, then figure out what it is doing.
And with that - you only underline my point. Maybe zigbee2mqtt is not written by the owners of home assistant, but it is such a essential part of it - and you guru’s know all the finesse nuance and details, but for me and any beginner - it is “home assistant, because it can do all this fancy stuff” - it is one heap.
it could have been so that when somebody writes software chuncks to be used within this ecosystem that you are obliged to use a standard for;
but there is not such a set of rules. every addon, integration, import, dock, or whatever you call the bits and parts has a whole
But, Z2M wasn’t written for HA.
Z2M works with HA, sure, and it also works with many other platforms, all of which look and work differently to HA.
THANK.YOU. Santaclaus! 
so much this!!
I’m not sure if there is a word for this phenomena in psychology;
not being aware of the difference of your own knowledge and what can be seen as average or common.
not too long ago a collegue of mine, working in private mobile networks - had ambition to do marketing. I asked him to write an explenation why 5G networks have slower upload then download and why you cant just change that. It appeared impossible for this (very bright) engineer to write that in normal language - he was using too many things as commonly known. If you’re interested and you can read dutch- Here it is.
I have it and don’t use it. So far, I’ve been able to do every automation I want in the Home Assistant UI, without needing to use Jinja or dig into the yaml for any reason other than to see how it’s formatted. I also consider myself to be pretty intelligent and I’m having trouble understanding what building blocks to use without needing to watch dozens of videos about it.
really? Each node (or maybe most of them) has a description built-in. Most nodes are self-explanatory. I’ve never watched video about any nodes usage.
I must be hyper-intelligent then, I consider 
Nobody states the opposite. The initial assumption is, that for a beginner, writing automation in yaml/jinja is troublesome and doesn’t add to HA accessibility. IN response to the question “what instead” I have proposed NR as easier in my opinion to use alternative to learn. At the same time it provides way-more functionalities as well as full-featured programming language (lack of such a language in favor in yaml/jinja which is not even a language was signalized by some contributors in this thread too)
I honestly don’t see what the big deal is about there being/not being a “full-featured” programming language.
I don’t think there is anything that I can do in node red because of the programming language.
The only thing I know that I can do is read configuration files with the file node.
Handling APIs is also slightly easier with node red since you can see the JSON/arrays.
But for most other things I have not really noticed any major upside to node red anymore.
A few years ago it was different.
It seems we have a failure to communicate clearly here. I do all my automations in the Home Assistant Automation Editor and have never needed to insert Jinja templates into it. If I need access to data that’s more complex, I use the ability to create helpers to get that data. Again, no need for Jinja templates. I’m sure that eventually I will run into that, but hopefully by that time there will be more helpers added to ameliorate the need.
It is: a reusable floww, and if you step into JS: reusable code, certain control block types missing in HA yaml/jinja.
If you are not aware of the benefits of the programming language, it’s hard for you to compare. Everything you do in HA scripting can be achieved in NR. But it doesn’t work always in the opposite direction. And for sure lot of things are achievable with greater finesse, quicker, more intuitive to read later on etc etc.
Believe me: you cannot compare both. It’s incomparable…
