No thank you! Blocky is old and ugly at this point. A blocky alternative? Sure.
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I’m always a bit scared of these requests. I understand the desire, but I think it is a bit of a siren call. It does appear simpler and it likely is less intimidating to start with. But, In my opinion, this ‘graphical programming’ quickly becomes more complicated than more basic alternatives. Seeing peoples ‘simple’ node-red flows usually doesn’t change this opinion for me 
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I think this is because in essence graphical representations and complexity don’t mix well. And even though automations are generally not complex, the options the GUI has to offer to support all possible automations will in the end quickly make it a mess. My own experience with node-red also reinforces this, I have experienced that I very quickly need to write or download custom nodes.
Finally, I suspect it is also strongly a matter of taste though and since I’m used to programming and using shells, text/python/yaml seems more natural to me. So I’m probably very biased. That being said, I’ve seen this fail professionally as well, specifically because the underlying complexity was underestimated.
So, I guess what I’m saying is, I would suggest that if this is added, to keep it small in scope and treat it mostly like a beginner’s entry point and only useful for very basic if-this-then-that style automations.
Another alternative/first step could be that automations can be graphically represented like a flow but still written in yaml? Not knowing much about UI design, that sounds like a somewhat simpler ask to me 
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It’s sufficiently integrated with Home Assistant to make it seem native (as with most Add Ons). Regarding “overly complicated”, that’s a subjective opinion; I found it easy to use plus very powerful and flexible.
What you’re asking for is for someone to invent a flow editor (i.e. something similar to Node Red). Homey was obliged to create their own Node Red clone because it’s a commercial product and there are licensing issues with including open-source code in a paid software product (aside from the desire to maintain control over its development).
In contrast, Home Assistant is, like Node Red, free, open-source software. Integrating Home Assistant and Node Red is far simpler than building (and maintaining) a Node Red clone from scratch.
The odds are low for someone to invest their time to duplicate functionality that’s already available (via Node Red).
The odds are higher for implementing suggested improvements to the existing automation editor (short of converting it to a flow-style editor).
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Node Red is a external application that control HA, with custom nodes, infinite canvas, UI elements…
For me, the purpose is a flow editor that use the actual engine, instead use the actual editor for write YAML, use a “new flow editor” to write the same yaml.
Not infinite dashboard with multiples flows, the same actions/blocks, only as flows:
And instead a “flows dashboard”, a flow by automation.
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It’s already kind of implemented in the automation trace view. Maybe it could be flashed out a bit and added to the automation editor itself, but I’m not sure how helpful that really would be in practice, especially without the drag and drop editing functionality.
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This is correct. When we looked into making automations easier to use, we realize that there are a lot of things we can do help new users to learn and reduce the friction in the UX for existing users, and a visual programming UI, despite looking more powerful and easy, is in fact neither easier nor more powerful to use.
Instead, it’s somewhere in the twilight zone of not being powerful enough and way too cumbersome compared to just plain YAML, versus being too intimidating to normal users who just want to automate a light bulb.
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Semantics; graphically define automation logic; already available.
I was fairly opposed to this considering the relative complexity of node red (which is really a bolt on to HA and not made specifically for it). But the Homey example looks compelling especially for beginners.
The automation editor has improved a lot in the last year or two. But it still has a lot of room for improvement. This could be one facet of it.
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In addition to being helpful for beginners, there’s also an accessibility benefit to having a graphical flows option for building automations in that some people are just more visually inclined learners.
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Coming from OpenHAB and “fabricating” automations for myself for 5 years what I’ve found really hard is that the community and documentation was not really clear or easy to search for the correct modality to distinguish between. Openhab has JavaScript (at least two new versions after Nashorn) , Python, Blockly, the new WebUI, RuleDSL, and others.
On the other hand what was really a releaf with Homeassistant is that all the examples and the documentation was in YAML which I found to be straightforward and easy to work with.
I’m not wording against other engines but I emphasize a need for correct and easy way to differentiate documentation, building a community categorization of the newly introduced options. Thank you.
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I have a few automations I’d like to move over to a real programming/scripting language. As some of them grow larger they are too onerous in yaml or the UI. I just haven’t had time to learn how to use Pyscript or AppDaemon (I think that’s what it’s called).
But yeah, largely agree that documentation gets more complicated with more ways to do things.
Homey flow is amazing, I do not like node red at all…
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As someone that daily works with visual flows using Mulesoft to make API’s and such, it makes sense for me to do the same for my automations. Thus I use Nodered for my automation logic. It makes sense for me. Not to mention I have trouble with large texts of lots of reading. Looking at HA Automation it overwhelms me. Visual language makes sense for me.
So yeah, would love to see this in the future in HA.
Maybe one should look how OT-PLC programmers use their (visual) programs. In Siemens you can switch from visual program from FBD (Function Block Diagram) ↔ LAD (ladder logic) which is relative user friendly.
In my opinion ladder logic is very useable to read/understand and could be a nice option to start visual programming.
For example to switch --| |-- an output/lamp —( )— , read it from left to right:
|------| |------( )
Just quick search on the internet as an example:.
EDIT: in school this was the basis what was taught.
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@iAR I do not think that post should be marked as the solution to this, is that a mistake? Not a solution to the original post IMHO.
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I assume this Month of WTH is some kind of brainstorming.
And then I think that marking a statement as “this is the solution” — except if it REALLY and OBVIOUSLY is the solution — is a bit against the goals of brainstorming.
If you read the posts, then some are in favor, others aren’t. So clearly there is no consensus. And still I think “kind of” squelching other opinions by marking someone as a solution that the OP didn’t want is not nice.
Personally, I detest graphical programming — but I’m a programmer. So if the graphical programming items have a textual representation (that people can exchange, e.g. here in this forum) … when why not!!! It’s like currently the GUI editing of Home-Assistant doesn’t take much away from the YAML preferrer.
So not, what is marked as a solution is just a personal opinion (like mine above). It’s not the solution.
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Hedda, remember OP controls the solution checkbox
I think we should be careful stating that opinions are “correct”, no? Clearly there are contradicting opinions.
I moved to HA from Homey because of privacy and open-source, but I, too, think their automation editor is amazing and easy to use.
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Maybe a drag/drop and add/delete to the existing ‘tracing’ solution to begin with?
EDIT: Just to start the discussion, 2 panels, left the trace (flow), right panel to select which ‘symbol’ to add/delete with drag/drop. Maybe a button on the top to change to the trace view <—> ‘normal’ automation view and a button to simulate?
EDIT2: Maybe colors can be used to see the actual states of each symbol?
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Node red isn’t what op is asking for. Node red is suboptimal for this, as while it’s a great automation emgine, it’s not tailored for home assistant or smart home. Built in flow editor in home assistant would be much more intuitive for use with home assistant. And I’d have to rebuild automations from scratch to move them to node red.
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