I have a healthy network of 39 Matter devices - WiFi and Thread, connected with ZBT-2. The problem which drives me nuts - as soon as I merely plug in Apple TV (through Ethernet) within minutes my Matter devices start to go Unavailable and in 30 min most of them are down. The only way to bring them back to life is to literally unplug Apple TV from power - then in half how everything goes back to normal. In the past I used Apple TV for HomeKit devices, but now I don't have any and merely want Apple to stay away from my home automation. I removed Home from Apple TV and removed everything from the Home app on iOS to no avail.
One discovery I made is that when I onboard (or re-onboard) Matter devices with HA Companion on iPhone Apple TV silently adds Apple fabric to the devices and Matter creds to keychain. I could not find a way to stop it from doing that. @%#^@# Now I deliberately removed all devices from the keychain (using iPhone Settings) and removed Apple fabric from all devices using HA UI. Double checked that it stays that way. It does not help at all!
For experiment I set up coding agent (Codex) to pull and analyze Matter Server log every minute from the moment I plug Apple TV in and the resulting log looks like a chronicle of the bloody battle. The log quickly starts to fill up with these:
CHIP Error 0x00000032: Timeout
Timeout waiting for mDNS resolution
operational discovery failed
Subscription Liveness timeout
Failed to establish CASE for re-subscription
To the best of my knowledge it is caused by Apple TV discovering my devices and competing with HA for managing them. Apple keeps pounding on them, devices get flooded with requests and stop responding. I am aware that Matter in theory supports multi-admin configuration but implementation quality of this feature varies by vendor. Leviton devices are not good at it.
I would just toss Apple TV to garbage, but the family wants to watch movies with it. I consider implementing some borders on the router level but it smells like another can of worms.
If somebody could help me limit Apple TV to watching movies and prevent it from touching my Matter devices in any way my gratitude would be limitless within reasonable limits
It is both WiFi and Thread with WiFi devices being mostly affected. I had Apple TV as the second OTBR joined to ZBT-2 Thread network but it was still flooding WiFi devices.
At least now you know what you have in you house all the time.
I don't use matter so my comment will not be helpful.
I set up my network using vlans and put all those "smart shiny things" on their dedicated vlan and call the day off. Of course I set up local dns for all traffic so I can monitor what my devices are doing and who they are calling.
It just cross my mind.. maybe you can create different wifi for this tv. I don't know will that help.
I use sophos router with opnsense as a gateway and a dirty bunch of openwrt routers running batman-adv in hybrid mode.
Probably not for everyone and I don't think my setup will help you with your problem.
Apple TV is on Ethernet and bringing managed switch to separate Ethernet traffic for VLANs is not something I want to deal with today. But thanks for your responses anyway - I got some food for thought.
What does the Apple Home app on the TV itself say? Apple's documentation says that it tries to be a router if it thinks it's supposed to be part of your home.
Removed all Matter devices from iphone keychain (Settings->General->Matter accessories)
Removed Apple fabric from all devices using HA UI
Removed HOME from the Home app on iphone
Removed the room (?) from Apple TV
Rebooted twice. One reboot was not enough.
Now Apple TV sits quietly and does not try to take over the house.
But every time I onboard a new device with iphone I make sure to remove it from keychain and remove apple fabric from it immediately.
Wow, that’s ugly for a protocol that’s supposed to make things wondrously multi-vendor. Glad you solved it.
I wondered why a somewhat similar setup here hasn’t blown me up. Apple TV’s on Ethernet, with HA integration. And shows up in my Thread router list. I’m using Matter on both Thread and Wi-Fi.
But… I haven’t yet gone thru the gyrations to get Apple TV’s onto my main Thread network. I had been thinking to do so, to get more TBR’s. But you’ve just saved me the effort of even trying to do so. Sounds like it would be ugly if I succeeded.
(My Thread routers are little SMLight SMHUB “sticks”, running OTBR on Linux. -Way cool device, by the way.)
I also had Apple TV as the second TBR meaning to improve Thread coverage for remote battery powered devices. Now I learned that I don't need another TBR for that. Eve Smart Plug fulfill that role beautifully. I sprinkled a few around the house, even at the locations where I don't really need a smart plug, and Thread coverage improved substantially. I temporarily switched current Python Matter Server App to Beta version JS based version which is coming, because it can graphically show your Thread network topology. With that I could see that those Eve devices automatically formed a "backbone" which connects to my ZBT-2 and carries the signal to all low power Thread devices. Just what I needed, not another TBR. Why Eve and not similar devices twice cheaper? I started with the cheaper ones and they were hard to onboard, unstable, etc. Eve on the other had worked from the first try and stays rock solid. I figured my time and peace of mind is more valuable than $15 price difference.
Yep, that’s what I did –skip the cheap / finicky stuff, & spend a bit on good solid gear; I love those SMLight SMHUBs. I’ve got one in each building. (Steel roof & siding, so pretty isolated environments.) Thx for the tip on good add’l TBR’s.
It is getting to be a bit funny around here, with various smart plugs labeled “Do not unplug”. For Zigbee, Z-Wave, and now Thread? Oh well.
I checked on SMLIGHT SMHUB. Apparently they are very new. If you have time could you explain what is the advantage of having one or many of them at the same home as HA. And also where you get those? Don't see them on Amazon.
@konste Re SMLight SMHHUB NANO: Yeah they are new; I’m still running a pre-release version, and newest version of OS is 1,0-Beta3. It’s been changing rapidly; they already had some really nice capabilities, and are adding more. I’m currently only running Thread OTBR on it, but it’s capable of doing a lot more.
Radio on this unit can do either Zigbee or Thread, & run Zigbee2MQTT or OTBR.. Higher-end version has two radios, so can do both. It is POE, and can do USB over Ethernet. And other USB options, like external storage drives. (Besides internal SD card.) I’m planning to run Z-WaveJS UI on it (with a Z-Wave USB dongle). Can run MQTT Broker. either as your main MQTT or as a satellite. Can do WireShark or TailScale VPN. Can run MatterBridge, to present Zigbee devices via Matter to multiple Matter controllers. Has some bells & whistles (literally), with beeper/buzzer, IR transmitter/receiver, NeoPixel type LED. Runs Linux, & newest version of OS allows secondary core to run ESPHome at same time. It can run NodeRed. The Linux portion can run Node.JS or Python apps.
All that in a box about 1” square and maybe 6” long (plus another 5” or so for antenna). They call it the “Early Adopter Version, & selling it at discount.
Their web site Where to Buy section mostly points to Ali Express, as well as some other sources. I bought both of mine (at Amazon US) , but for about double price of other places. I paid $109 for mine, but received them with 1-2 day shipping.
All told, it’s a really powerful device, to help distribute HA functions, esp. with a multi-building setup like I’ve got. Reviews say it’s NOT for the tech newbie. But I’m still quite impressed with how easy to setup & use it. Has been very solid & stable in operation.
Sounds interesting indeed. I found it on AliExpress. I can see how it can help with the multi-building arrangement, but my house is small and fully covered by HA running on Mini PC, a single powerful router and ZBT-2 with a couple of Eva devices for Thread retranslation. So for me it would be an overkill but I will keep an eye on it in case my house grows bigger or something
Still I proudly manage a herd of about 100 "smart" devices and debug issues like why when the fridge door is closed restrooms on the second floor go dark
