Rob
That’s certainly a cost effective solution but I will need hundreds of relays so this will be alot of fabricating and although the cost is a consideration it certainly is not at the top of the list and it will have to get past building regulations.
I’ve found this which I think will do the same thing as your set up slighly more costly but it’s all on one board and could potentially slot into some sort of rail maybe.
Taras
I’ve checked with my electrician about the UK regulations and waiting his responce… I may need to get in touch with someone that knows a bit more about this sort of wiring, I think it’s quite unique as I’ve mentioned my upcoming build to him before and he looked a little confused
Robin
Your house sounds alot like my current set up, loads of control with lots of different devices and protocols in play all OTA. My wife is against wifi for health reasons I guess and having all these devices is a necessary evil for her, the bedroom is a no go area and other than the a-lady nothing is wifi in there. She even insists that we turn the wifi off at night and when we go on holiday! So if a burglar breaks in while we’re away or sleeping I would not have any CCTV footage of it I know… makes the whole thing kinda pointless but I really don’t even want to get into that now. But frankly all that aside, it would be criminal to build a new house and not use the opportunity to wire it up to support central hardwired smartness!
There will still be wifi and zigbee device and over time I’ll add more stuff no doubt but the bulk of it needs to be wired.
Now, I’ve done some more research and KNX keeps coming up but sounds complicated, there’s Wago and Siemens devices but they make little sense to me at this stage, I’l have to look into this more but I have a feeling that Wago is something that could work, I will get in touch with them next week. Then there’s loxone but that looks more intergrated than I would probably need but maybe not. As I’m not that IT wizzy it may be good to get something with an infrastructure already in place instead of trying to build it myself. The railduino also looks really interesting and at least it’s a platform I’m kinda familiar with. https://sedtronic.eu/en/4-railduino
Anyway it’s early days and I’ve only just started looking into this. I’d love to know what kind of hardware professional guys who do home automation for a living use. There’s a Grand Design Show in May, I’ll try and pick their brains.
I did a search online and saw an article about health issues related to Wi-Fi. To me I don’t have any health issues at at. Maybe because I have a Ubiquiti UAP AC-Lite and have a smartphone and coffee maker connected to my network.
If your wife is sensitive to electromagnetic fields, then it makes sense to keep a distance of 40 feet away from the Wi-Fi router (or 10 feet minimum). 10 feet is 3 meters so 40 feet is 12 meters. Approximately.
Update: Another article about Wi-Fi and radiation:
Run conduit from all boxes and devices in a room to a central accessible box, then several conduits from that box to your main panel/automation area. Now you are set for whatever the future holds.
@lessmann which system did you decide on? I’m also starting a new construction and based in Europe and looking for a wired system.
What I require from the system:
Support for switches/buttons (one press, multiple presses, long press)
Control lights, with dimming
Control power outlets
Compatible with HA
No vendor dependency
I’d like to have wall switches so that I can program them to command any light or AC outlet in the house and use a wired system for this. I would then like to install some wired or wireless sensors for “intelligence” with HA. I have been recommended the free@home by ABB (Busch & Jaeger in some countries) but this is a closed system and switches need to be f@h compatible. Some threads here recommend Modbus but that seems outdated and also I’m lost on the basics of PLC stuff…
@porksoda I think the only wired, non vendor specific and not (yet ) outdated system is KNX.
Free@home is bound to one vendor and not compatible to Knx (it uses the same infrastructure and parts of the protocol).
Hager would have a Knx compatible line named “easy”.
I’m a little put off by the unipi PLC because of the NodeRed but other than that it is completely open source, easy to integrate into HA and has it’s own mini-forum. If you are confident in node-red then this is excellent. They do have other software but node red will be the easiest to link to HA.
I also still have the Loxone miniserver but not had a chance to set it up, the software looks a little more complicated than I had hoped but apparently it’s straight forward and with a DMX extension and some googling it looks very flexible and open to work with other products.Their tree topography does look very appealing though and I also really like their wall switches. What I’m less happy with is their support and customer service. They are totally useless to talk to and unless you have the time to go on one of their courses they are not willing to steer you in any direction for getting started.
Ive built a house before and honestly I would not have had time to do this on top of managing everything else so realistically I will probably go for Loxone and get a Loxone partner to set up the critical stuff (lighting, heating) to get the house up and running and then do the rest (sensors, blinds, automations) once I’m in.
I also think having something commercial like Loxone will help in future when selling the house, there are loads of electricians in europe that are familiar with it and can you imagine the complications of handing over an open source set up!
Thanks for the reply! It’s great that you mention Loxone, it is one of the greatest sources of my confusion. With KNX, I need to use a KNX-compatible cable to the switches. Loxone being “just a PLC” system can use mains cable to light switches/buttons, correct? On their site they recommend using CAT7, however I don’t think I’ve ever seen a light switch that is wired with CAT, so what am I missing? Additionally, I think I’ve seen people mention PLC systems with Raspberry Pi or Arduinos, is that possible and why not just do that if going down the PLC route, sounds cheaper?
Unipi is based on a raspi and Arduino do PLC’s too but I think you need to get to grips with the wiring of a plc type smart home. No matter which system you go for the wiring concept will be the same.
The idea is to have all the “control” in one place so all the relays and switching will happen in your node zero (main cabinet)
Your switches will be low voltage cat cables which turn an input within a plc on/off, the logic of the plc then determines what output or relay you want to switch on/off. This relay will usually be switching high voltage, your standard normal house electric wiring.
It will not look like any “normal” house wiring. PLC will be wired in a star topography, every switch(input) and light (output) will have its own connection back to the plc, there will be no direct connection or cable running from one light to another in a ring type either.
The Loxone knowledge base is a good place to start, the diagrams will give you a good idea of how things are connected up.
Well. As always it depends. If you want a industrial grade, proved and solid infrastructure that scales out very well, without any vendor lockin, I would go for knx. I’ve around 40 lights, 17 covers, 15 heating valves, 30 controlled outlets, 12 temperature sensors, 10 motion detection sensors plus some extras like weather station and so on based on knx. Actors and sensors are from different brands, always choosed the piece I liked most in price and functionality.
I was thinking about using loxone, but after all I decided to go for an open and wide spread solution which does not depend on one single company.
Additionally I integrated some things using esp8266 and hue to my installation using hass. So for me its the perfect mixture of all worlds. I can add self made things using hass if I want not to afford or it does not exist in the knx world.
The only thing i really dont like about KNX is that the ETS licence model is all or nothing. No special licence for home owners. ETS lite or this new ETS Inside is a bit crappy. And in fact, ETS professional is only available for Windows.
Quick update.
I’ve made a decision on Loxone and will not be going down the Unipi route.
Lighting, which is the main priority in a domestic smart home is really well served under Loxone and with the DMX extension you can add cheap chinese dmx dimmers to control all sort of lighting and even external relays so this pretty much solves the problem for “switching and dimming”.
I really like the Loxone wall switches which have 5 buttons and also the ability to click through preset scenes for each button. Having one of these in every room with a common logic throughout the house should make it very intuitive. For example you can have Top left for blinds up, bottom left for blinds down. Right up for music vol up and bottom right for music vol down and middle button to toggle through light settings or any combination you like but I think it’s important to decide on a “logic” and stick with it thoughout the house.
What worried me with Loxone was the limited I/O and the additional extensions are expensive but with the tree extension you can add 100 devices. This covers motion sensors and the wall switches so even though the devices themselves appear expensive at first, the fact that they connect problem free with no need for additional inputs make them very appealing. The light switches also measure temperature and humidity and the motion sensors have a light sensor too so you get more than just one action from each device. This should cover any expansion needs without having to buy more PLC hardware.
The software was a bit tricky to understand at first but if you can set up HASSIO, you can manage this. It’s simple, well documented and very flexible.
I like it alot! The customer service on the other hand is useless but I’ve had some good advice from the forums.
I’ve still got to get my head around how this will control the UFH and pump etc but I’m confident this will manage it just fine.
That is very interesting! I am also considering KNX as a “Rock Solid” solution because it is wired and has a lot of other positive characteristics (design, diversity, pricing*) Pricing in comparison with a Z-Wave Installation
Have you ever experienced that you have to reboot the “KNX Server” because it has frozen. Or is it as stable as I would expect it from a wired solution?
A knx installation does not have a controller nor a central server. If one device would fail the communication of other devices would not be compormised (except the power supply fails).
ETS Inside is used to configure the knx devices - I think you could power it off when configuration is done. (I personally have no experience with ETS Inside, but the conventional KNX with ETS Professional installation).
I have not had a frozen KNX device that needs a powercycle for the 2 years I’m using the system.
The “controller” you linked is an IP-Interface. It connects KNX-TP to IP. You can use any. HA connects to KNX over IP so you will need one (ETS Inside and Professional does too so I think you would need one anyway).
Thank you! Now I understand KNX better. I thought you would need a central server/controller that handles all the stuff.
OK let´s see if I have it right:
I would need knx sensors and actuators all connected to the 2-wire bus cable as well as KNX-TP to IP. Then I can use my HA instance to do the visualization, scenes and automations?
Now I have a better understanding about the solution and how it works. Basic KNX is more parameterization than programming. A lot of “programming” is done by using the ets and preconfigured “automations” like eg “Turn on light when there is movement”. The fact that all parameters are stored on the devices itself and the ability to “talk” directly to each other makes it as “rock solid” as it is.
I know… makes the whole thing kinda pointless but I really don’t even want to get into that now. But frankly all that aside, it would be criminal to build a new house and not use the opportunity to wire it up to support central hardwired smartness!
) outdated system is KNX.