Can I connect Neutrals (N) to the Lout of a Zigbee Switch?

[BorjaIglesias]

Hello everyone,

I’m looking to integrate a Zigbee switch into my home automation system to control a fan motor. However, I have some questions regarding the wiring and compatibility of the switch with the fan motor’s connection scheme.

I have a connection diagram that outlines how the fan motor operates at different speeds. The diagram includes several configurations for connecting the motor: minimum speed (Fig. A), another minimum speed (Fig. B), and maximum speed (Fig. C). Here’s the diagram for reference:

Additionally, I have the wiring diagram for the Mini-Z1 ZigBee Switch with 3 gangs. Here’s that diagram as well:

My question is: Can I connect the Neutrals (N) from my fan motor to the L1, L2 and L3 of the Zigbee switch? The switch seems to be designed to control the power (L) but I want to ensure this configuration is safe and functional connected to the “neutral” of the fan.

I appreciate any guidance or advice from those who have experience with this type of setup!

Thank you in advance!

[Sir_Goodenough ((SG) WhatAreWeFixing.Today)]

Careful BorjaIglesias,

No, that definitely won’t work. DANGER DANGER.
You would need to wire 3 relays in there to use that switch.
Plus you definitely have to have the switch lock out so only 1 of the outputs can be on at a time. if2 came on at once, that is undefined and could also be very bad.

The relays can be turned on by your device, the the relay contacts could do the switching.

Disclaimer

DANGER OF ELECTROCUTION

If your device connects to mains electricity (AC power) there is danger of electrocution if not installed properly. If you don’t know how to install it, please call an electrician.

Beware: certain countries prohibit installation without a licensed electrician present

Remember: SAFETY FIRST. It is not worth the risk to yourself, your family and your home if you don’t know exactly what you are doing. Never tinker or try to flash a device using the serial programming interface while it is connected to MAINS ELECTRICITY (AC power).

[BorjaIglesias]

Thank you for your feedback. I previously consulted with ChatGPT, and it suggested that it might work since some switches can handle both live and neutral connections, even if it’s not explicitly stated.

If I use three relays, how can I force that when I turn one on, the other(s) automatically turn off before actually delivering the power? For example, if I switch from relay 2 to relay 3, I want to ensure that relay 2 is off before relay 3 turns on. Is it possible to achieve this through some kind of automation, or does anyone have another idea on how to implement it safely?

I appreciate the insights and want to ensure that my installation is safe and compliant. If anyone has experience with using relays in this context or further advice on safe setups, I’d love to hear it!

Thank you!

[Sir_Goodenough ((SG) WhatAreWeFixing.Today)]

Some devices have it, others don’t You are looking for this:

interlock mode to turn on 1 connected device every time and turn off the rest of devices simultaneously 

This one has it but I don’t know which other one has it or don’t.
SONOFF 4CHPROR3 4 Gang WiFi Smart Switch 433 MHZ RF Remote Control Smart Module DC & AC Input eWeLink APP Control Support Alexa

[tom_l]

@BorjaIglesias

I previously consulted with ChatGPT, and it suggested that it might work

Taking electrical advice from an uncertified software AI that likes to confidently bullshit you / hallucinate is a bad idea. Stop doing it. You wouldn’t consult a person who was notorious for doing the same. So why trust an AI?

[TH3xR34P3R (Robert Koganov)]

There is a reason they are labeled… L-in, N-in and L1-3

L-in is for your mains live
N-in is for your neutral if you have one
L1-3 is your switched live going to the device you need to control.

Always get a licensed electrician out to install and validate the setup.

[BorjaIglesias]

Thank you for your recommendations.
It will be installed by a certified electrician, but in my area, they have no idea about these things… the ChatGPT thing was just a joke, I asked knowing it would tell me what I wanted to hear, but that’s why I opened the thread here…

I’ve prepared a hand-drawn diagram for the case of installing two switches to control two speeds (installing a third one would mean adding another in line, but I’d need to be sure about cutting one before the other opens).

I’m attaching the diagram for you to let me know if it’s correct:

Is this wiring correct?

Thanks, everyone!

[orange-assistant (the real one)]

@BorjaIglesias

the ChatGPT thing was just a joke

The internet is full of “great” darwin challenges, any one remembering the “outlet challenge”

What Is The ‘Outlet Challenge’? How It Can Electrocute Or Burn You

Alexa tells 10-year-old girl to touch live plug with penny

Survival of the fittest it is nowadays

@BorjaIglesias

I’d need to be sure about cutting one before the other opens).

interlocking is what you want (hardware side not in HA!)

GPIO Switch

[BorjaIglesias]

Any help with the schema?

[orange-assistant (the real one)]

Do you mind to share details of the fan? Are the ports really just labeled “1,2,3,C”?

I would expect the live wire to be switched and not the neutral one

Also you ideally want to have one (smart) switch with multiple outputs so you can make use of a interlock function

Interlock (engineering)

Thereby avoiding any surprises that might occur when accidentally connected to multiple switches (might range from nothing to a broken fan controller)

[BorjaIglesias]

Thank you very much for your help.

The motor/fan I am trying to control is the AMC 3V from Siber. Here is the website: https://www.siberzone.es/descarga/amc-3v-10054/.

As you can see in the attached diagram, it has a 4-input connector (1, 2, 3, 4, C) that internally controls the motor. We can only connect wires to the inputs of the connector I mentioned. The connection to the motor is soldered.

We have finally purchased a relay with multiple outputs to try to control all the speeds and test the interlocking, as you suggested. The specific model is the ZG-005-RF (image attached).

We have made then the following connections, which we believe are correct:

The issue is that, when connecting with all the relays in the OFF position, as soon as I activate the first relay (connected to C) to enable activating the others and configure the different speeds, the fan already starts (I think at maximum speed), and activating the other relays doesn’t change anything in the operation. If I deactivate the relay connected to “C,” then the fan turns off. So, I’m basically back to the original setup with a single relay.

I assume it could be a wiring error with the ZG-005-RF. Could that be the case?

Thank you very much for your help,
Regards

[Karosm]

NC is normally closed. So you have all three wires powered when relay is off. Move them to NO. I would pass 1 directly to N since it’s needed for all speeds.

[BorjaIglesias]

Thanks @Karosm

I have changed all the relays to NO but the behaviour is still the same

Do you have any other suggestion?

Thanks a lot!

[Karosm]

It can’t be the same. Do you have LEDs on every relay input?

[BorjaIglesias]

Yes.
Every relay sound when I switch them on and turn on and off the Ligths according to its state…

[Karosm]

Verify with multimeter that relays behave like expected, and that you have correct mode selected. And I repeat, your wiring diagram doesn’t offer option where 1 is disconnected, so you should hardwire that.