I’m following the instructions at Raspberry Pi - Home Assistant for a new installation on a raspberry pi 4. Everything went swimmingly until the part where I actually install HA:
(homeassistant) homeassistant@buteoha:/srv/homeassistant $ pip3 install homeassistant==2023.3.5
Looking in indexes: https://pypi.org/simple, https://www.piwheels.org/simple
ERROR: Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement homeassistant==2023.3.5
ERROR: No matching distribution found for homeassistant==2023.3.5
I tried earlier releases (2023.3.4, 2023.3.3, etc) but they all gave the same error.
This is a fresh installation on a brand new SD card with freshly installed Debian Bullseye.
If you don’t want to use Docker for some reason then you’ll need to install pyenv along with all the required OS packages so you can build and install Python 3.10 from source, so you can create the venv.
If you go down the pyenv route then keep in mind that each December you’ll need to repeat this for the next major Python version - 3.11 this year, 3.12 next year, etc. Using Docker avoids that, you just pull the new image each month.
and possibly others, depending on your integrations.
That’s fine, but you’ll need to be comfortable installing a new release of Python every year. You’ll also need to be comfortable rebuilding Python, and re-creating the venv, if it turns out you’re missing something.
IMO the complexity it adds is minimal and well worth it for how much easier it makes installing and running software.
You were right about the Python version. I checked the version with python3 --version and it showed it was 3.9.2 or something. I installed 3.10.0 and was able to install HA 2023.3.5 without a problem. Apparently Python 3.10 has been required since about 2023.1.7 or so, since that was the version of HA that was installed when I entered pip3 install homeassistant (without a version).
I didn’t have to install pyenv, I just removed the old version of Python3 with apt. Hopefully that won’t come back to bite me later.
I get your point about Docker, but I still don’t like the extra levels of abstraction. Makes it too hard for my little brain to debug problems. I much, much prefer appimages for Linux program distribution. They’re basically a zip file with everything you need (libraries, etc) to run the app. Just set the executable bit and run.
While on the subject, I’m not sure why Python is so popular nowadays. Any programming language or data format that requires specific placement of leading whitespace (I’m looking at you too, YAML) is a big step backwards in my book. Give me Java and JSON and I’m a happy camper! [/vent]
Now I have to go restore all of my YAML configurations from the crashed backup to this new version and see what doesn’t work. They were created in a version many moons ago. Gonna be fun.
I have installed python 3.11 on raspi4, but it was only possible to install the version 2023.1.7.
Error message:
ERROR: Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement homeassistant==2023.3.6
ERROR: No matching distribution found for homeassistant==2023.3.6
Hello everyone, just landed on this post and I really want to express my full disagreement in regards to “advantages” of forcing users to host an application in docker containers. Basically the authors of HA have pushed for docker because is very easy to install the application, but docker itself was not created for this purpose (to make installations easier for users).
I personally want to use my Raspberry PI for multiple purposes not only HA. I want to run ffmpeg on it to receive H265 RTSP streams from my surveillance IP cameras (so no transcoding) and store them on a USB connected storage (2x18TB HDD), I want to run a DLNA server on it so I can make video content available for all my TVs within the house. Right now I even have a temporary situation where the RaspberryPI is also use to provider internet from a WiFi network to a local cabled based LAN network and I’m doing stuff (NAT, Port Forwarding, routing) with IPTABLES.
If I am to run HA in docker, how much RAM should I allocate for the docker container? Running a docker involves basically to run another OS (with its kernel and core services) which means you consume more RAM even though your hosting OS is already running maybe exactly the same services.
HA is designed for home automation and in most cases is hosted on RaspberryPI with like what 1 GB of RAM? Why should you add an extra layer of virtualization and RAM memory reservation?
Anyway, with your “requirements”, on/for your "Raspberry PI ", with coexistence with HA, im sure you will run into alot of problems, and will regret you didn’t consider the “advantages” of some cheap extra hardware ( i.e an old laptop, or an extra PI )
Really? How do I confuse Virtual Machines with containers? A running container (not container definition) is exactly like a virtual machine. It has an entire OS running inside together with whatever other software. To run a container you need a host and the host itself will need to have an OS running (plus docker) in order to HOST your running container.
How comes that isn’t a waste of RAM by having 2 Operating Systems on the same hardware instead of one single OS?
About the other suggestion from boheme61, have you considered the power usage of a normal computer/laptop which will run 24/7? I strongly believe in energy efficiency for my house (together with comfort) so I really don’t like the idea to use powerful machines just because a software does not have a proper architecture/design. I even perform a PWM for my relays in order to greatly reduce their power consumption while they are turned ON.
But yes, I get it, we live in a world where people don’t care too much about resources they are using…
I moved my HA to a “slimmed” windows 10 ( i disable various services, deleted/disabled programs , which wouldn’t have any purpose etc., as it’s only for HA ) old Latitude E5530(i5-3230M), (8 GB Ram 128GB SSD ) Power consumption average of 12-18W(with LID closed ) … i can live with that
PS: I didn’t pay anything for it, NOT EVEN for the RAM, as it was “included”
I really don’t know what to say, my initial thought are that your 2X18TB HDD attached to your PI’s USB, and USED as Streaming-Storage and DLNA server would not only consume quite some power.
BUT most of all Streaming TO the storage, and streaming FROM (to all your TV’s) through your USB attached HDD’s ( controlled by HA ?) And whatever purpose you have in mind …
Then you need quite some “optimism” to believe you won get problems ( i would strongly consider another PI if i was you, and you find them less power-consuming for your purposes ) … on the other hand you haven’t specified what you want you HA installation for, so already there your question in regards to RAM seems irrelevant, as do your first sentence, as you are not forced to anything, but have multiple choices if you want to run HA
If I had any doubts about going with HA or OpenHAB you definitely helped me out to take my decision. For the record, I work as Software Developer for 20 years now and for the past ~7 years I’m working with different applications deployed in containers within clouds (Amazon cloud and Azure cloud). You make a huge confusion about the technical details behind the virtualization procedure. But maybe the bellow questions will make a bit of light:
Also what means a line like this in the Docker file?
“RUN pip3 install -r requirements_test.txt”
can you run a pip install inside a “pure program” or you need an OS for it?
The fact that I need 2 HDD for (also) recording my 8 surveillance cameras does not justify to also use a computer which consumes more energy. My TV is quite new and it knows most of the video codecs so there is no transcoding needed to happen on the DLNA server (RPI).
To give you a bit of a context, I already have a RPI which does video acquisition from 4 surveillance cameras (will extend to 8) on one external 18 TB USB drive (will extend to 2 HDD). The video streams are also uploaded to google drive with a small .NET program written by me. The very same HDD & RPI has miniDLNA which I use to play videos on my TV (over the network so the RPI is not connected with HDMI whatsoever to the TV). On the same RPI I have a custom made website (in .NET) from where I manage my heating system and my lights. The heating system and the lights automation are custom built - I designed the PCB (then executed in China), I soldered the components on the PCB, I wrote the code on microcontroller, I wrote the .NET website from where I manage the lights and the heating.
I was looking to HA and other similar platforms because I want to take a shortcut and skip the implementation of the UI for my custom made smart devices. Besides, many friends of mine are already asking me to implement different smartness in their homes and each home is slightly different. One house has wood based heating system with 1000 liter water storage which requires different rules & logic. That’s why a configurable platform would help me a lot.
I’m even considering hosting the web based platform in cloud so the users won’t need to have a RPI, just an ESP32 which will proxy the data packages between the physical devices and the web based platform.
But from what I see, HA is made mainly for less experienced users who are buying all kind of smart devices and then they are installing HA & plugins to use them. This is totally fine and very nice, but I wished HA would have more flexibility when it comes to more experienced users.
BTW, did you guys knew that a smart TV which is “turned off” is actually using ~20 W because is always connected to WiFi and waiting for commands? Do you guys know that any transform has about 1-2% current leakages when is not used? This means that if you have an AC device which is poorly designed, and the transform has ~3000W capacity, then it will lose 30W when is turned off.
I have a smart meter in my current apartment and the total power consumption (when I’m not at home) is 100 W. Of course, I have my internet routing running, my RPI, but the 100W are without the fridge.
100W means 1 KWh in 10 hours or 72 KWh every month. Do you have any idea how much energy this world could save with just some simple smartness in every house? Probably between 10% and 20% of energy is wasted on useless/stupid devices in every house.
Well, no, I read the documentation on how VMs and Containers work. There’s only one confused person in this thread… but you don’t want to listen so I’ll leave it there.
Initially i got the impressions that you seems to have a strong need to trying to convince people how “brilliant” you find your self, rather than reading HA docs, and find your ways to take advantage of it’s options and solutions.
And to be honest i did “SWIPE” through your “bit of a context” ( thou i dont find it appropriate to commend on that, as there won’t be mush constructive nor possessive in my answer to that )
And for your last “Section”, i dropped my jaw already at first sentence !
Seriously ?, i don’t know why you wonder(don’t you think alot people have a pretty good “overview” over their i.e TV’s power consumption (or other utilities for that matter) ? , … nor do i know which TV you are referring to ( you do know there are quite a bunch to choose from, with various "specifications, features etc , right ? )
Lastly i can inform you that Smart TV’s are not " Always connected to WIFI " , both mine is NOT AT ALL ( and i got a pretty weird idea that i save both Energy( i know !) and Relief the WIFI signals( give more room for wifi-only-devices(obviously !), so they don’t have to “struggle/use more energy” to get through), AND Give my Router less to Handle through that Channels(might save a few Watt their also ) … by simply plug the TV’s with a TP- cable
Right, so you have read the documentations of VMs and Containers and without working deeply with those technology, you are suddenly an expert. Well, I’m not that smart to perfectly understand everything correctly only from documentation so I rely/trust more on what I experience.
@boheme61 you obviously can’t see the full picture here. But let’s recap the facts.
I tried to install HA directly on my Raspberry PI without using any virtualization (container or VMs). I have zero experience with Python but pretty good experience with Linux and other programming languages(C#,C,C++,JavaScript). Anyway, I followed the instructions from official HA site and it didn’t worked because I had to install another version of Python (which was not stated correctly in the official documentation). It was than moment when I landed on this forum where I saw several comments not with the solution (how to successful install HA directly on the main OS) but with plenty of reasons why people should NOT proceed with that type of installation but rather use a docker container or a VM.
You came up with the “brilliant” idea of using a more powerful computer which obvious consumes more power (I hope I don’t have to explain you the law of physics that more transistors of same size = more energy used = more heat dissipated = NO passive cooling = noise from cooler and additional energy used for active cooling).
Regarding your TV not being connected to WiFi, I admit it can be the case. It depends probably on the brand and some settings, but if you want to be able to “turn on” your TV from your phone, I guarantee you that the TV has a running circuit & software reading network packages (from WiFi or from cable). And in all cases, when you shutdown your TV from the remote control, the TV is not fully off with 0 electricity consumption because it needs to have active at least the circuit which “listens” for IR signal.
Maybe for you it doesn’t matter, you don’t care that 1-2 extra watt, but there are people in this world who believe in efficiency and people who don’t like to waste resources (food, energy etc).
We don’t have to take this to extremes and move in caves, but developing a software in a bad way to require powerful computers to run, it has a really really nasty global impact. If every person needs 10 extra watt to run HA (by adding another RPI or by increasing the main computer type), multiply that 10 W with 10 million people and you get 100 MW of wasted electricity because of a stupid software.
Move on ! , skip your 4 extra surveillance cams and your extra 18 TB HDD, ditch ALL your extra TV’s and keep the one you “NEED” (so you can sit and watch all your CAMS/MOVIES/SERIES)
Just remember ALL the extra KW you consume “dragging” this(for some reason), and how much you save by not “expanding” your consumption +100 %. multiple times !!!
BTW “no heat is disappearing” (nature laws) , so it’s part of the heating system in a house/apartment
Sorry to hear you don’t find any benefits with HA, but im sure you can create your own UI , while believing you make a huge contribution to the world, and HA users is your worse enemies. Good to hear there are such brilliant, engaged and knowledge people out there. it gives one hope for the future.
PS: Don’t stay up to long watching your TV’s, they consume +4000% ! when ON (well some, others more) (not counting the HDD’s/Router/switches etc. which might be involved in your show )
) … by simply plug the TV’s with a TP- cable