Actually if you phrase it like that it actually makes more sense now. What most people want to run is Hass.io (which like me was confusing to understand when you’ve never heard of hassio but have heard of Home Assistant). Basically what I wanted to use all along is hassio (like you say the full package). But we all call it Home Assistant (or HA in short). For me hassio is Home Assistant, so in that regard your logic has merit. You want the mainstream user to use hassio (better said Home Assistant).
For new users this naming scheme is a no-brainer I think, but I understand that the community that already use HA in one way or another can find this confusing. The thing is (and was the reason I commented about this in the first place) the forums are full of questions about the differences between HA and Hassio and they will remain there for quite some time. I often find some information that I think is useful only to find out it no longer works or is outdated. (this is not a problem btw, it’s just how forums work in general). I do however think it might pose problems for new users not understanding why people talk about hassio.
But again, admittedly with your explanation it does make sense.
Yes, we realize this takes time to heal. However, the old situation was not good as well. We are looking forward to the future and v1.0. We need to fix things now, the longer we wait, the bigger the issue becomes.
This name change is a huge thing! Not just a big thing we all need to get used to, but even bigger for everything that needs to be renamed! It definitely takes a couple of weeks to get the main parts re-branded.
I wasn’t trying to light a fire under anyone’s azz, it was more of a question about how that entire sub-forum, dedicated to the discussion of hass.io, will be handled. The sub-forum can’t simply be renamed to “Home Assistant” because the entire community forum is about “Home Assistant” (makes it seem recursive).
Perhaps the solution is to lock the hass.io sub-forum, to serve as an archived reference?
I think its all great to clear up the naming but I have to agree with this. Home Assistant has always been Home Assistant and since the beginning (at least as long as I’ve used it) has always meant virtualenv install. But now Home Assistant is Home Assistant Core and what used to be Hassio is now Home Assistant?
Suddenly now years worth of internet posts and YouTube videos that used to refer to Home Assistant (as it always was in a virtualenv) are now referring to what to what used to be Hassio? So if you use google to try and research something Home Assistant in a post, you have to know that if the post was made before last week it means HA in a virtualenv or docker but if the post is made after Jan 2020 then it referrers to a different Home Assistant (previously Hass.io)
How do we go back change the years of established internet to rename everything to the new naming convention?
I hate to bring this up…but is now a good time to drop “lovelace” as the UI name? https://yoururl.com/lovelace looks weird. When it was new it made sense, but now it’s just “the UI”. The states ui is basically just for legacy support, right?
Never rename a product to a name your customers already know.
Renaming Home Assistant to Home Assistant Core and then HASS.io to Home Assistant breaks this rule and will cause so much confusion we will be playing “You mean home assistant as in the hass.io or home assistant core?”
It really is sad to watch such a wonderful ecosystem and so much talent invested in it cause such overhead with these sorts of decisions. Can you not recruit a good product manager to work through the options and manage this to a logical outcome?
These sorts of things currently are addressed as a group of developers would - refactor and move on. But the problem is these are things that will really mess with your user base and those who support that use base.
It’s been 2 weeks of explaining where the group.all’s have gone and a ton of people helping users recreate something that was removed for all very good technical reasons, but a good product manager would have charted a better user journey through that change.
Everyone runs core. Some only run core. But the userbase is one which consists mostly of HassOS + Supervisor + “old” Home Assistant.
I had to take a step back at first, but it makes sense for me now.
This represents all the parts that the devs have worked on over the years coming together. That thing that came together IS Home Assistant. It makes less sense to refer to the more broadly installed version and all of its parts as some kind of UN-version of Home Assistant. It’s also still early enough that marketing-wise, only the niche community would take notice, and I think we can handle it. Those most confused by the change didn’t appear to grasp the old nuances anyway.
Are you worried about Hass.io becoming closed source? It would be immediately forked, this community is the perfect case for it. Lots of developer attention, it’s driving vital personal stuff for those people and many more, and many of those people are open-source purists. There will be a Hass.io at least as awesome as the one we have now forevermore.
I totally agree with the rule of not rebranding to a name already in use. This will only create confusion and will invalidate all the documentation and material that already exists. Hass.io should not be just Home Assistant but something else added to it. As suggested above, something like Home Assistant Plus or Enhanced or Advanced. This way, Core + Plus + OS would all he under Home Assistant umbrella but you would have a term to use to differentiate each part and this should be the main goal of this rebranding.
Anotyer question is if this decision is already set in stone or is there any chance that, based on the community feedback, the rebranding can be changed. If not, no point in discussing it anymore.
When I was just getting started, you have no idea how difficult it was to try and figure out what was meant when one of these was said: hass, hassio, hass.io, home assistant, ha, hassos
It seemed at the time like people were using them all completely interchangeably (even within the documentation!) and then when I was trying to find out how to integrate dash buttons, I found references to an addon that made it super easy, but I couldn’t find them, which was even more confusing and frustrating. Trying to make sense of it all was just a PITA.
This change makes it so moving forward, this can at least be mitigated. In addition, there being a prominent notice on the site that the name change happened will at least give people an indication that in the past, previous to version 0.105.0 [or whatever], the names were different, which might help with some confusion. With all that said, I fully expect most of the community will still use at least a chunk of these abbreviations, so I’m not really sure how much it’s going to actually help a newbie, but at the very least in 6-months or so, hopefully it’ll have settled down and people use the ‘proper’ verbage.
Conversely, it’s also possible that the fears people are saying will be accurate and this is going to add a completely new level of confusion to those just getting started :-/
For people that want the original ‘hassio’ to be named something like Home Assistant+ or something along those lines, it doesn’t make sense. They want people to use the full Home Assistant package [formerly known as hass.io] as the primary method of installation and anything that indicates it’s “different” than the main install or the primary installation package is going to be a non-starter. If you choose to run the non-standard install, they want you to specifically state that you’re doing so by saying that you’re using ‘Home Assistant Core’ or ‘Home Assistant OS’ or ‘Home Assistant whatever’ [This part is incorrect].
That’s my $.02 anyways. If you made it this far, thanks for reading. Rip my thoughts to shreds if you so desire.
That is an excellent point…