I’m looking into using Home Assistant in my home for home automation and control. I’ve been researching it and have several questions. I know they’re in different topics, but I’m basically trying to see how it all fits together and what I can and can’t do with Home Assistant. I figured I’d be using multiple Raspberry Pis to do some of the things I’d like to do. As of now, I have some Insteon and some Z-Wave devices. I’m open to using different protocols, but this is the current hardware.
We have our house and an old pig barn that was on our lot when we bought it. We’ve renovated it, but it’s out of wifi range. It’s connected to the house via fiber optic cable so it’s on the same LAN, but it’s a different wifi SSID. Will I need to use a 2nd Home Assistant system in the barn to connect the devices in the barn?
My understanding is I need hats to use to connect to Z-Wave and Insteon and some other protocols (like, maybe, Zigbee). Is that correct or can they be connected to by wifi?
I’ve read of people doing infrared control for entertainment systems. It looks like people are doing this and most are using Broadlink devices. One thing I like about Home Assistant is that it doesn’t phone home and report my data, but I’ve heard Broadlink does. What’s the background on this and are there other options other than Broadlink that don’t phone home? Like, perhaps, software I can just stick on a Pi near the entertainment center?
I’ve avoided any voice assistants so far. My wife has made it clear that we will have no cameras on the lot (not even game cams) and nothing like Alexa or Google or Apple that could be listening and recording (whether it’s audio only or video or both). I’ve read some about Mycroft. Can that work with Home Assistant and am I right that it doesn’t phone home?
While I’ve brought up the issue of phoning home, we have another issue similar to that. We’re in a stretch of road where we can’t get “real” internet. We use a cell modem and it usually does okay, but it’s also incredibly slow and difficult to deal with sometimes. So for anything I’d be using, like Home Assistant, Mycroft, or Broadlink, anything that needs an internet connection to work is a problem for us. I’m sure people here know about Home Assistant, but does anyone know if the other systems require internet other than for something like periodic updates or upgrades? (Or maybe IFTTT for something like weather forecasts?)
Is it relatively easy to find iPhone and iPad apps that can be used for both controlling infrared controllers (for entertainment centers) and other devices, like Z-Wave and so on? Or will it be necessary to get a number of apps and use each one for a single need?
1 why not do it correctly and have it in the same network?
If you do it correctly then there will be no problems with Home Assistant.
5 Home Assistant doesn’t need internet.
You could potentially unplug it from internet (block in router) and it will function just fine, except time won’t be synced.
Some integrations won’t work like weather and other cloud based things.
And updates of course.
But HA is meant for local usage, the only thing that is not local when you install it is probably time and weather. Everything else you need internet for is something you added yourself.
6 not sure what you mean… relatively easy?
I don’t know…
My guess is that moat of what you ask about can be done in HA without any extra apps
I’m not sure what you mean by “correctly.” The barn and house are too far apart for wifi. The only safe way to get any LAN connection for the barn was to run the fiber optic cable. (They’re over 300’ apart, in a heavily wooded area. No way to connect them any other way, especially during leaf-out.) Even if I used the same SSID for wifi in both locations, they would still be two separate wifi routers too far apart to connect. I thought of using the same SSID for both buildings, but the problem is there is an area between them where a mobile device can ID the networks, but can’t use them. This happens more in the winter when leaves are off the trees. Troubleshooting is a lot easier when it’s possible to verify specifically what wifi router a device is connected to. There’s really no other way to do it.
Good news - glad to hear that!
In other words, possible to find apps that can work with the different uses without having to spend time with specific searches to find one that works half-way.
No, you can use HA with the current network setup you have as long as the SSID’s cant contact each other.
No, not HAT’s in particular (there is a Z-wave one available) but generally most people use USB connected devices. This is a better option since you can migrate them to better hardware (replacing the RPi) if you want later.
Broadlink are great but don’t worry about ‘phoning home’ since you won’t use the Broadlink app or cloud service. You can link them directly to HA and have them operate purely local.
You won’t need internet at all for HA or the devices mentioned so far. In order to update HA however… there are updates monthly so if you want anything contained in an update you will need internet access.
That’s fine - if it’s the same subnet it’ll all work.
For Zigbee and Z-Wave devices you need some form of radio “bridge” - the recommendation is a suitable USB stick. WiFi devices don’t need that. You even have the option of running multiple ones if you want (say) Zigbee in both the house and the barn.
If you want purely local I’d second the recommendation for ESP based solutions. A little bit of ESP tinkering also opens up many other possibilities, such as fancy lighting, and more, much more.
Yes, there are some local only voice assistants. They’re not as capable as the online ones, but they work.
Internet is only really required for upgrades or cloud services. Some of the install methods (like Home Assistant OS) require some changes to their default configuration to make them happy with that, but they’ll all work.
You can use HA from the phone, either the official HA app or the web page, or other interfaces (there’s quite a few options). It’s Home Assistant doing all the work, your phone/tablet is just a fancy remote for HA.
If you want to use zwave or zigbee at the barn you will need a controller in that location. (hats or USB sticks - sticks are way more common in my experience)
both of those protocols have remote bridging capabilities via either a websocket (zwavejs) or via MQTT (zwavejs2mqtt or zigbee2mqtt).
you will just need to connect them to a host in the barn that handles the interface to the network.
A RPi running a separate HA Supervised HAOS instance is the easiest way to do that. If you know Docker (or are willing to learn it - recommended) then a RPi just running Docker is all you need if you don’t want another HA instance to maintain with updates and such.
I’d argue that Supervised is never the easiest way of doing anything. Supervised isn’t an install method that should be blindly recommended (or possibly just ever recommended). If somebody has the skills to correctly run Supervised then they have enough Docker experience to just run Docker. If they don’t they should stick with HAOS.
When you have two routers like that (here is the assumption) you shouldn’t connect the second router with the WAN/Internet port.
Connect them LAN - LAN (“one of the four” to “one of the four”) then set up the second router as an access point.
That means all devices will be handled by the first router and the second will only act as a switch.
I think you can still use different wifi SSIDs but I have never tried it.
I can’t see a reason why it wouldn’t work.
I need some clarification. First, @finity and Tinkerer (I’m new, I can’t tag but 2 users in a post!) talk about HA Supervised and HA OS - I’m guessing HA OS means OS is for Operating System? I’m wondering if it’s possible to have a main HA install and a client or slave install that could be in the other building. From what I am reading and thinking, apparently, for Z-Wave in the 2nd building, I need a Pi in there with a Z-Wave hat that can communicate with the Z-Wave. Is that right? (And that would answer a question I keep meaning to ask in a number of places and keep forgetting. Am I right that these different systems, like Z-Wave, Zigbee, and Insteon do not operate through normal wifi signals?)
I’m wondering if I can put a Pi with a Z-Wave hat on it in the barn and let HA, on another Pi in the house, control the Z-Wave devices the Pi in the barn can connect to.
@Hellis81: The current problem with my LANs is that I was having trouble with distance. Back when G was the standard, I had one router in my old house and it covered the house, even the porch (which had a brick wall between it and the interior, where my wifi router was). Now our new house is the same or smaller in footprint, but also has a 2nd floor, but one router doesn’t cover it. I really think routers are being made with weaker signals now! Anyway, I got the Deco from TP-Link, which is a mesh system. It has limits and I find it frustrating which options I can’t set on it, but I’m stuck with it unless I get a new system for both buildings.
I do have ONE DNS for the LAN, it’s all in the same 8 bit address space (172.16.7.xxx). So if something has an IP address on wifi, it’s in that range and reachable from either building. The fiber is transparent to the network and both wifi systems operate in the same address space.
Based on your ONE DNS comment your networks are of the same LAN ( Local Area Network ) it just the wireless have their own SSID, but are still on the same LAN.
You can have a installation of HAOS on a pi inside your house, or computer ect, and everything connected on your LAN would communicate with it regardless if in other building as both on same LAN.
As for the Z-wave specifically but I assume would apply for the other standards, You would have to have a controller setup, ie a usb zwave stick, hub that supports zwave ect in the other building, for any devices out there to be able to communicate and be controlled by HA as the distance would make it impossible for a single setup in your main building to relay the signals to the other. Wireless devices that are supported would communicate directly over the LAN
I myself setup 2 raspberrypi 4
1st having HAOS, Aeotec Zwave Stick and wired into my LAN
2nd OpenVPN, Interface to IT100 for my alarm ect wired into same LAN
my 2nd device as a example could be out in your other building, and add a usb zwave controller to it, and it would be able to communicate with HA
Using z-wave as example, but probably applies to zigbee ect in a similar fashion, it makes it own “private” network that devices communicate through each other with the hub/controller. In my case as above Aeotec USB zwave stick is my controller. 1st device pairs with the controller, that device extends the range as it listening for other devices, other devices pair and range extended from them. So devices to far from the controller are still able to be used as they all communicate with each other.
Below is my network tree for my zwave devices. If one fails they just reroute through other devices to keep communicating to the controller.
@kcairns : Oh, that sounds great! Yes, I’d use either a USB Z-Wave stick or a Z-Wave hat. As of now the only other standard I’m using is Insteon, and I see there are hats (and probably USB sticks) for them, too. I take it I need to do something on the Pi in the barn to add each Z-Wave device to it one by one? Or if I set it up, and use HA on another Pi on my LAN, will HA be able to control the barn Z-Wave dongle enough that it can scan for devices?
A side note: I’m not thrilled with Insteon. I honestly think the the Insteon people, or at least the company, have/has a very pedantic and narrow minded view of how to do things. But when I started setting things up, the ONLY controllers I could find for ceiling fans were Insteon - but, at that, they lied to me. When I bought the controllers, someone there told me one of them could control two fans - perfect for my porch setup in the house. But for a number of reasons, including an electrician who was scared to try anything new, we didn’t get the Z-Wave or Insteon devices installed during construction. (Yeah, that pissed me off!) We’ve been here about 4 years now and I’m only now having time to get back to working on home automation. I have Z-Wave locks that I installed during construction, a Z-Wave garage door opener, Z-Wave thermostats, and a Z-Wave garage door opener in the house. The barn has Z-Wave light and ceiling fan switches and Z-Wave thermostats. (But they’re GO-Control. One day we had a power flicker issue and it blew out one of them. Nobody at Go-Control - part of Nortel - would talk to me. They were just nasty about the whole thing.) I picked Z-Wave because that’s what seemed to have the best or most controllers in 2017 and because it was an open standard that seemed to not be controlled, the way Insteon controls their standard. Also, it seemed there were a lot more companies building Z-Wave devices.
Having said that, if I find tons of wifi controllers, or any other protocol, that will work for me, I’ll set up for them.
As for the barn to do zwave there yes you’d need a controller plugged into something. Or a hub that does zwave. There are certain hubs that control multiple standards with addons ect that could be used.
I replaced a AIBase setup that only does zwave (my data/tv guy set me up with that, if I had researched… I wouldn’t of wasted the money or time when we built last year! ) With a aeotec zwave stick controlled by HA. The nice thing about that is it just needs to plug into a USB port, so if you have a computer that is on all the time ect out in the barn, or setup a pi it would work. The zwave stick was nice too in fact that you can unplug it and take it to each device to pair. You push a button on it and it in pairing mode, do the sequence on the device required to pair. Done. Works great when you’re by yourself and there 3 floors of devices! Last few I setup I did through HA with my son on the phone setting the device in pairing mode while I controlled at my computer ( phone was dead at the time so couldn’t log into HA to do it that way )
