Choosing Zigbee or Z-Wave radiator valve (TRV)

henrikbjorn · December 14, 2020, 9:01am

With the new release yesterday at the conference I am seeing this quite a lot, when trying to control the valves. It almost never works 1% success rate.

2020-12-14 09:28:19 ERROR (MainThread) [homeassistant] Error doing job: Task exception was never retrieved
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/src/homeassistant/homeassistant/data_entry_flow.py", line 130, in async_init
    result = await self._async_handle_step(
  File "/usr/src/homeassistant/homeassistant/data_entry_flow.py", line 213, in _async_handle_step
    result: Dict = await getattr(flow, method)(user_input)
  File "/usr/src/homeassistant/homeassistant/helpers/config_entry_oauth2_flow.py", line 318, in async_step_discovery
    return await self.async_step_pick_implementation()
  File "/usr/src/homeassistant/homeassistant/helpers/config_entry_oauth2_flow.py", line 243, in async_step_pick_implementation
    return await self.async_step_auth()
  File "/usr/src/homeassistant/homeassistant/helpers/config_entry_oauth2_flow.py", line 267, in async_step_auth
    url = await self.flow_impl.async_generate_authorize_url(self.flow_id)
  File "/usr/src/homeassistant/homeassistant/helpers/config_entry_oauth2_flow.py", line 147, in async_generate_authorize_url
    redirect_uri = self.redirect_uri
  File "/usr/src/homeassistant/homeassistant/helpers/config_entry_oauth2_flow.py", line 131, in redirect_uri
    raise RuntimeError("No current request in context")
RuntimeError: No current request in context

iamkarlson · December 14, 2020, 10:30am

I’m using both ZigBee and Z-wave for different devices int my house. For most of the lighting and sensors I use Zigbee, and for heating Z-Wave. I have a few sockets for zigbee and z-wave and I’m not sure why but z-wave seems to be more stable.

For TRV I’m using Danfoss Z-wave valves. Battery life is something around a heating season but I’m checking most of them every 2 month and replace just for my patience.

TRVs are quite reliable I would say. If your radiator installed properly it doesn’t overshoot or make noize. Here’s a graph of the temperature from TRV:

This is a graph from the independent sensor in another part of the room (like ~2m direct sight but installed at the top of the wall and on the sunny side):

I’m using those TRVs with OTGW and biggest problem I found is that for certain radiators non of the TRVs works anyhow good. For example, this valve always overshoot but not because of the valve.

Hot air goes up and temperature sensor in the TRV very sensitive and switch it off very quick. So it opens and closes all the time what drains the battery. As a solution I found that I can set temperature for 28°C and then measure real numbers on the independent sensor. If I need to switch it off I set it to 16°C.

P.S. I wrote down about my setup here: OpenTherm Gateway (OTGW) or smart boiler in your house

jolly · January 23, 2021, 7:43pm

Hi, I would like to take this Tuya ZigBee3.0 model enticed by the price. I have a conbee stick and was wondering if they work well with deconz software too.

FlangeMonkey · February 14, 2021, 11:15pm

How are people faring with there choices?

I am also looking at the Tado solution as well as options from Danfoss and Tuya.

bjorn.sivertsen · February 15, 2021, 7:42am

I’m very happy using Danfoss (Zigbee) with ZHA.

I’m able to update the firmware with the public released firmware. And able to make it adhere to external sensor, as the onboard thermometer is usually reporting warmer temperatures than what’s real.

I’m also able to link the devices, with the custom component climate group so I can control multiple units from one Lovelace thermostat card.

In addition I’m able to link the units with automations, so if I turn the temperature dial on one physical dial, it will adjust the others in the same room. This is good for the WAF.

The last thing I need to implement is create automations that closes the valves, if window sensors report windows being open. This is something that others has reported is working.

Tado is to my understanding much easier to setup, but it’s very rewarding to me that I could go around having a cloud connection.

benmarshall · February 16, 2021, 11:49am

Hi Bjorn,

Could you add a link to the exact model you are using? I’ve been looking for a TRV which would properly adhere to an external temperature sensor!

Do you know if the Danfoss model you have reports a valve position, like open percentage?

Thanks.

bjorn.sivertsen · February 16, 2021, 11:58am

Hi Ben, you bet.

It is this TRV: Danfoss Ally™ | Danfoss

This explains how to set it up with an external thermometer: Danfoss Ally TRV working with remote temp sensor - Hardware - Home Assistant Community (home-assistant.io)

@Mazal here managed to get valve position reported. But you best ask him how he went about it. Danfoss Ally valve: Slow actuator response [solved] - Hardware - Home Assistant Community (home-assistant.io)

nslr · February 16, 2021, 12:40pm

Ben,

The Danfoss Zigbee TRV does report “PI Heating Demand” - I’m not sure if it’s the same as valve-open percentage, though. But I do see that number going to 100% on initial heating phase, then staying at around 30-50% during the day and go to 0% during the night. So it’s at least very similar.

benmarshall · February 16, 2021, 2:34pm

Thanks to you both!

Can i ask what Zigbee integration your using? Deconz or ZHA are the main two i understand? And what dongle?

I currently only have a zwave network but it seems there are no reliable zwave trvs!

FlangeMonkey · February 16, 2021, 2:51pm

I found a couple, checkout vesternet. Danfoss and Aeotec do some z-wave models, however, I think the Ally ones look better, but I’m also curious about the Tuya Zigbee HY368-ZB from cn-hysen. Cheap as chips, but I’m sure it’s a pay for what you get.

On this note, I still thinking of Tado for simplicity.

bjorn.sivertsen · February 16, 2021, 7:25pm

I’m using the conbee as a device and ZHA as the integration. But second should work just the same.

benmarshall · February 17, 2021, 6:00pm

Thanks everyone!

gavb · March 2, 2021, 9:02pm

Those Danfoss Ally TRV’s look surprisingly like the Hive TRV’s. Does anybody know if the Hive TRV’s are just rebadged Danfoss TRV’s?
The reason I ask is that I am returning the 5 Hive TRV’s I have been trying to get working consistently for about 4 months. I’ve just given up the ghost because of 4 main issues:

Over or underheating a room
Needing to recalibrate frequently
Temperature accuracy very poor ( 3 TRV’s showing up to 5 degrees different temperature)
TRV coming on in bedroom when set to 7 degrees (the straw that broke the camels back!)

I am now looking at something to replace them and am just about to order 1 of the Tuya ZigBee 3.0 TRV’s from AliExpress (Approx £22).

I have a Hive thermostat which I am happy with. As someone else mentioned recently, I would like TRV’s to turn the heating down in a room which is not in use or overnight to prevent the bedroom overheating.

wbravin · October 30, 2021, 9:31am

Hello all

I read this thread and i am posting this message here because i see that you all have struggled with this issue as i am now

My next project would be to replace my current HVAC architecture and replace it with a more efficient solution. This solution will include PV and thermo hydro panel (to produce hot water) and relative storage tanks.

This will all be integrated by the installer that will supply the components. Fine

The house is developed on 3 floors and each floor has 3 sections (left right and stair well). Each section I plan to a aeotec multisensor 6 (to include in the lights HVAC and media automations)

At this same time of the 12 heating radiators.
I will be replacing 2 of them with new and much more efficient fan coils and I will add 5 more fan coils to my solution for a total of 17 units

I have read about TRVs with their updated capabilities

My question to you:

will a TRVs integrate to aeotec multisensor 6?
Will a TRV open and close gradually?
Will a TRV be silent during the open and close process
Do TRV include a motion sensor?
If so can I avoid adding the multisensory 6 in section of the house and use the TRV onboard motion/presence detection to activate lights?
Can the TRV be fine tune to ½ deg C to turn on/off the flow
What adaptors are included with the TRV? (i live in italy and my water lines are 15mm
Do I need to control the pumps in the boiler room that feed these sections and these TRVs or should I have the pressure always on and let the TRVs dictate the requirements?
In the case of the fan coils, (who need a dry switch to control them). These fan coils will produce heat during the winter and cold during the summer. Will your TRV (or dry switch) be able to activate the fan coil in both scenarios)
Can i integrate in an automation z-wave multi sensors and zigbee trv? ( i currently have an aeoted gen 7 z-stick. ( i will; need to add a zigbee use controller to the HA pc)

This, for me, will be a large investment and I want to ensure myself that I pick at least the correct components of the system to allow me to build the proper automations in home assistant.

Thank you in advance for your response help and patience

mirekmal · October 30, 2021, 11:59am

Let me try to answer some of your questions (as I’m in th eprocess of similar investigation, just testing 3 Eurotronic Sprint TVRs):

Not directly. E.g. you can’t tell TCV to use specific temperature sensor to be used to regulate. It can be done indirectly via HA and automation and creation of additional generic thermostat entity. Other solution, that I’m going to test is to measure difference between external temerature sensor and temperature reported by TVR and apply calibration, so TVR thinks that his temperature is eqal to external. This way TVR will take care about regulating water flow to achieve the right result.
yes, usually it is 100 levels of valve opening.
define silent Eurotronic are hearable, but at the level that does not bother me even during the night.
Not eurotronics…
in most cases these are tunable to 0.1 C
RAVL, RAV, RA. it is not the pipe diameter that determine if TVR can be mounted directly (usually it is 30mmmx1.5mm thread), but on what type of existing valve it will be installed. TVR are only controlling valve opening, are not valves on their own.
it depends on inteligence of your boiler. If it can control heating efficiency by not pushing excessive hot water through the system (usually doen by comparing temp of outgoing and returning water, if the later is too hot limitting the flow). In this case you can safely rely on TVRs. If boiler is somehow fixed of pushin specific amount of water through pipes that it should be somehow controlled.
no idea
yes, via proper automations in HA… I’m using Netatmo (wifi) and Aquara (Zigbee) temp senspors to control Zwave TVRs.

wbravin · October 30, 2021, 1:52pm

Thank you very much for your answers.

This made move my thoughts forward.

I feel that this is a complex project but i hope it will generate savings and comfort next year.

my objective is to control the heating based upon my utilisation of the house… example

during the day
living room media room and office will be at 23 deg off during the night
kitchen 20 deg off during the night
stairs 20 deg
bedrooms off during the day and 15 during the night
bathrooms 24 deg constant

at point 8

the hot water tanks will be used as storage and supply the water to the whole system.
during the day the pv via a heat pump and the hydro panels will bring the water from 7 deg (from the aqueduct to 65 deg needed for the system.

because the house is very well insulated I plan to have enough hot water to last me over night and early morning and sunrise.

so to your point, I feel that i will need to have valves on the main lines and i will need to activate them based the temp reading of the multi sensor or activated by the TRV
In my region i do not have any plumbers that have experience or for that matter knowledge of home automation.

I will need to be prepared with a clear, pragmatic workable and definitive architecture for this project

Once again thank you for you help and for taking the time out your weekend to respond

wbravin · November 3, 2021, 7:08pm

Helo all

After discussing with the plumber, the =most economical way forward is to go with the zigbee TRV from Giacomini (which all my radiators have their valves.

The current laptop is an hp elitebook which has 2 usb ports. at the moment one port is my z-stick and the other is occupied by the logitech mouse.

The sensors are z-wave and the TRVs will be zigbee
I looked into the single z-wave and zigbee USB but it only caters to US frequencies

There for my question to you all

Can add to my laptop a USB expansion board and connect both my z-wave and my zigbee controller?

if so
Will i b able to build an automation using z-wave sensors to trigger action on zigbee devices in home assistant?

thank you all for your support

bjorn.sivertsen · November 3, 2021, 7:35pm

Yes, that is feasible.

wbravin · November 3, 2021, 8:29pm

thank you for your promt reply

paul.j · December 10, 2021, 10:14am

Good morning all! I have received an email from Shelly advertising their TRV product for pre-order. This looks like a great option - I am just exploring the technical details to see what is exposed to MQTT before placing an order. If I do, I will start a separate thread explaining how I get on.