Daikin Heat pump Altherma Integration

Hardware
22

I am working on exactly the same setup. My Daikin was set to leaving water temperature as I had no room thermostats either. A lot of messing with this and I have “almost” cracked it.

Daikin related Installer setting required:

  • [C-07] needs to be 1*
  • [4-08] = 1
  • [4-09] = 1
  • You need a switch wired to X2m 30 & 35. I have wiring off my circuit values (which are contolled by basic thermostats) which will open and close this circuit. Solar heating will flat out not work if C07 is set to 0.

Lan Adapter (with Solar)
X1A connections:
SG0 = live voltage
N - neutral

  • For me smartgrid triggered when this is powered (using controllable plug/socket to trigger with Solar PV generation rises above 400w)

So basically everything is working for me… except that the energy meter (also ABB) is not working. I’ve no idea how to test the pulse but I’m get 4.8v on the end of the wire so I’m assuming I’m good from that perspective.

With the above set, the smartgrid works when the thermostat is NOT calling for heat (30&35 above). When the thermostat calls for heat smartgrid is disabled for the duration.

23

@Ross_McCarthy, thanks for reply, finally someone who understand me :slight_smile:

This should be the newest manual which I found:

Looking to 8.1.1 Energy buffering,
[C-07] needs to be 2 - therefore I bought Madoka for Heat Pumps, 2 weeks ago.
If [C-07] = 0 or 1, Heating or cooling needs to be manually disabled.
and according to 2.3 System requirements

[4-08] = 1
[4-09] = 1
[E-05] = 1
[E-06] = 1

I am using Dry contact switch (SolarEdge) doing the same what you Plug/Socket do.

How I tested the Energy Meter: Set the pulse lenght to maximum and measure it with Voltmeter. The led pulses should corresponds with S0 pulses. It looks like that my Energy Meter is working sending the signals. I have played with 1000 and 100 pulses/kWh, lenghts from 10 to 500miliseconds, but nothing works reliable. Once or twice it was working for a while, but I cant repeat it.

Look what I have found recently:
2.4 On-site installation requirements

IF connection to an
electricity meter (X2A)
Electricity meter —
2‑wire cable

IF connection to a solar
inverter/energy
management system
(X1A)

Should I understand it as Alternatives?
It looks like that I can unplug the SG0, as Electricity Meter can do the Smart Grid controlling? I will try to unplug the SG0 signal tomorrow, hopefully it will be enough sun!

Question: with your X2M switch you mean an Home Automated switch like they have in ESPAltherma?
Question 2: What is your static power limitation in LAN Adapter web interface settings?

Thank you!
Michal

24

Hi Michal,

This is great info. Surely we will get this working together!

So I have the system flipping from normal running to limited with my setup so far. When the thermostat calls for heat my power limitation gets set to 20KW on screen and the system fires up (as exptected). When the thermostat is not calling for heat (and DWH is not calling for heat either) and my switch activates smartgrid on X1A then the power limitation activates and but drops to 0 so the system stays off. I believe this is due to the pulse meter not working. I’ll try your trick later and report back to test it.

On the Madoka, I went down this exact line but as I could not source it locally I reached out to Daikin for a supplier… they told me:

“Unfortunately the LAN adaptor and Madoka BRC1HHDW can’t be used simultaneously on the system.They both connect to the same terminal block and use the same logic on the control function. If you want to go ahead with the Madoka it would mean removing the LAN adaptor.”

This is just complicating things even further! Thats whi I then looked closer and realised that my values had wiring for switch activation and I enbaled this (Connecting to 30/35).

I will try again today, time permitting, to get the pulse meter functioning and let you know.
Fialing that I will set the LAN adapter to staticlly limit power and see if that work. At least that will tell me that the rest of the config is good :slight_smile:

Delighted to have another persons input on this!

I’ll try gather a full over of everything I have set to build a fuller picture.

Ross.

25

Then change your Daikin supplier! See chapter 2.2.3 App control + Smart Grid application in the manual I posted.

  1. My BRC1HHDW is working now as (normal, not external) thermostat [C-07]=2, so regulating the temperature in the house is somehow partially done with LWT and partially with Set temperature. There is even a button to easily switch off the heating/cooling completely. Once I changed Set Temp to something like 20 degrees (we have 23 here), the SG was starting to work. However, I cant repeat it again.
  2. If you switch your heat pump to [C-07]=0, BRC1HHDW will work as an external display only, controlling the LWT and DHW

If you are looking for cheap BRC1HHDW, try to find it on ebay.de, it was for something like 80€, but only in black - BRC1HHDB. I bought white for 125€. My wife cant live with black one :slight_smile:

I did not tested the disconnected SG0 today, too less sun.

Question: Where can you see this 20kW on screen?
Question 2: Which unit do you have exactly? Mine is Altherma 3 R F with white/blue display, 230L DHW and 9kW heaters.

26

Today I have make the test:
I have removed Dry contact switches X1A SG0 1+2 (and SG1 3+4), leaving only power to accept SG: X1A N+L with combination of: X2A 1+2 100 pulses/kWh on web interface and on ABB electricity meter setting with 100 pulses/kWh and pulse lenght 20ms and 100ms.
Conclusion: Does not work.
After longer time - 15 mins? I switched to static power limitation and the heat pump was starting after few seconds.

I have checked many combinations of pulse meter settings, pulse lenght settings, sequence of starting the pump/solar invertor device, notning work with pulse meter setting.
I think that Daikin has made some mistake on manual, or even on programming the LAN adaptor.

I wrote to Daikin on their website, but only a local guy has contacted me. He is not so deep in this.
So i contacted Daikin over FB messenger again, lets see. Summer is coming, I want to make it work!

EDIT: today, I set up static power limitation and looks like that on LAN Adapter site Smart Grid was not working at all :frowning:

27

Hi,
just to inspire someone, there is a SD Card slot in Altherma 3 (I can confirm it on mine - located on the back of the black user interface plate) which can be used for WiFi SD Card adaptor.
https://www.daikin.eu/en_us/products/brp069a78.html.

Maybe something like SD-WIFI with Card-Reader Module can work there? I am only guessing…

28

Hello!
Is there any way to create an automation to change the “cost” energy parameter? For example if I am producing energy by the solar panel I would like to change the energy cost to zero and the gas cost to 1: in this way the system will go for the electric pump!
thanks

29

Hi Michal,
I would like to also connect my solar to Altherma 3. Csn you pkease share your know how? :slight_smile:
Where are you based ? Not sure how to send private message.

Thank you
Michal

30

Hi Michal,
I am in Slovakia. You? PL, or CZ?. Still big issues with my heatpump. First thing - you need to switch off heating/cooling to make it work.
I am using Altherma LAN Adaptor for Smart Grid + Solar Invertor accesories. I am using SolarEdge, your invertor has probably different parts to connect to LAN Adaptor.
I am waiting for reply from Daikin technicians for 20 days now, as their LAN adaptor does not work as in manual.
Please read the BRP069A61 PDF which I posted before, if you want to know how it should be working. I my case, it is not, @Ross_McCarthy has similar experience.

I am using OpenHAB and I want to automate it partially through it, however, I am not programmer at all.
M

31

Hi Michal,
the same like you Slovak. how can send you phone number or call you? will be much faster for our disscusion if you agree. messenger? and there we can share mobile? if you want.

THX
Michal

32

Hi all,

Sorry for long delays in reply. Very busy life at the moment!

I have my Altherma 3 working perfect with static power limitation now and can trigger it via smartgrid by powering the LAN adapter as per my previous post above. I will take a short video today to demonstrate the on-screen display showing the limitation etc. All I’m stuck with now is getting the pulse meter working, but at least it works with static limitation.

I have a basic on/off thermostat.

Ross

1 Like
33

@Casper26 looking forward to it! FB Messenger

34

OK, so I just made a couple of videos. First the setup… then I turn on the smart which I have to control SG0 which sends 240v to this connector. The Daikin swaps into smartgrid “recommended” mode and limits power to 1kw (set statically on the LAN adapter). I have full power monitoring external to this unit and can confirm that power does indeed limit as expected. As this switch is generally controlled though automation you’ll see half way through second video that the smart switch clicks back off and the Daikin goes back to normal running.

Let me know what further info you want in terms of wiring and installer settings.

To be clear… if the house is calling for heat or DHW the lan adapter settings are ignored completely. When the house is not calling for heat, I can now send excess solar to DHW to heat water.

(Also, I don’t know why I keep saying “call for power” in the vids… I obviously mean "call for heat!!)

Vid 1: https://photos.app.goo.gl/hL7PWZeWYHKz2SGb9
Vid 2: https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZRY6RNA4XQbshPzVA

Ross

4 Likes
35

Thanks for the videos!
comparing to your Altherma menu - during the SG function, my Power Limitation is jumping from ON to OFF all the time.the value is setup to 2kW when SG is ON, but in web interface I set up 1,5kW. Maybe this is the reason?

What is strange - the water tank is heated to 53 deg Celsius maximum, even when my Max setup is 60 degrees. I dont know why…

Here my short video (my very first one saying something! :slight_smile: ): https://youtu.be/fkAtnWUb_fo

36

Just had a look at your video. My 1st question is what is C07 set to for you in the Daikin units instaler field settings? The smartgrid will not work with it set to 0. As your display is not showing a thermostat icon it think you may have it to 0. This was my inital issue. Mine is now set to 1. I also had to wire in the thermostat by populating the required connectors on the unit. Can send you these if you need?

image

37

On my own system I have verified I’m getting a pulse now from my ABB B21 pulse meter and it is set to 1000per kwh and on time of 200ms. I have verified the pulses from my testing tool.

However my unit sits at 0 for power limitation when I have excess power and the unti is set to use meter and not a static setting. As mentioned before, for clarity, with a static limit set on the lan adapter webpage it works fine.

Just seems to not be reading the pulses.

38

Scratch that… its working!!!

I had it all set up, getting pulses and nothing… but it suddenly it kicked in. I assume it needed to meter for maybe 30 mins to “learn” before kicking in, but right now my smartgrid is working fully, with limit set by pulse meter (1kw currently as not very sunny in Ireland today!)

I will do a full end to end video on this in a few days once I’m 100% sure its all good.

Ross.

1 Like
39

Yes! good news :slight_smile: so 200ms pulse duration? I will test it too. Tomorrow we will have sun.
I am looking forward to your video!

From LAN Adapter manual:

System requirements

Domestic hot water tank
Unit control method
(user interface setting
[C-07]): no
requirements, but mind
the information below
“Buffering in case [C-07]
= 0 OR 1”
…
Buffering in case [C-07] = 0 OR 1
When, on the user interface, [C-07] = 0 OR 1 (the unit control method is leaving
water temperature control OR external room thermostat control), then the system
can only buffer energy in the domestic hot water tank, and only in the following
two separate cases:
:black_small_square: Space heating/cooling operation is turned OFF
OR
:black_small_square: During space heating operation:

  • Outdoor temperature > space heating setting [4-02]
  • Room frost protection is not active
    :black_small_square: During space cooling operation:
  • Outdoor temperature < space cooling setting [F-01]

Room (heating+cooling) :black_small_square: Allow for buffering in
the room on the
configuration web
interface.
:black_small_square: Unit control method: on
the user interface, make
sure [C-07]=2

Image posting does not work atm, but:
I have wired the Madoka to the same connectors as LAN Adapter - X5M/11+12
wiring

Two options:
[C-07] = 0 - Madoka is only a remote display, regulating the back water temperature with offset +/-10deg
C-07=0

[C-07] = 2 - Madoka as an Room Thermostat, regulating the room temperature - together with Equithermic curve somehow.
C-07=2

I don’t like thermostats, therefore I am thinking to integrate simple Wifi Relay, in place of On/Off Thermostat. I will change it to C-07=1 then and I will steer it with Energy Injected into the grid + maybe if the difference between wished and actual temperature will be too high. This is usually not the case, when the sun is shining, right?

From my understanding, talking to Daikin installer, running it on C-07=1 will make more start/stop cycles, as when you use C-07=2 - taking also Equithermic curve into account. However, how much is it, or is it like that at all, I dont know. Based on these info, I took the Madoka for heatpumps. I am testing it still, if it will fail, I’ll go with Wifi Relay to have a full control.

40

Hello all,

Building a new house and looking at Daikin AC and Heat pump.
I have checked that AC Online controllers, BRP069B45, are supported in integrations.

The Heat Pump comes with BRP069A78. I will also have a wall control panel to change target temp, switch on/off, do scheduling etc (Daikin Altherma EKRUCBL3 heat pump control)

Can I easily do whatever control panel does from home assistant? Does anyone how BRP069A78 work and what integrations are available? For example i would like to lower target temp if noone is at home.

2 Likes
41

Hey Ross,
Well done on working this out. I have the Daikin Altherma 3 and the LAN and the same problem you had. Im not up to speed technically as ye guys here. Would you be free at some stage for a quick chat on what you did and maybe I can get myself sorted? Im in Cork if you happen to be in these parts and I can buy you a coffee.
Cheers, Rodger