deCONZ vs ZHA vs zigbee2mqtt

francisp · October 23, 2020, 2:34pm

PizzaPino · October 24, 2020, 7:06pm

so as far as I can tell, nowadays it doesn’t make a difference at all which one you use?

ASNNetworks · October 25, 2020, 10:46am

Biggest difference is which device is supported on what platform. Also some have issues with one more than the other. I’m thinking of switching from deCONZ to Z2M for two reasons:

1: Z2M supports a lot more devices. More devices to choose from is great with pricings.

2: deCONZ add-on crashes after a few days. Happens totally random and log provides zero info. This issue keeps coming back. It somehow disappears with one update and then suddenly comes back with a new one. Lot of others report this behaviour too. Because HA now has a watchdog that can restart it automatically the issue is less problematic. However my aqara curtains lose connection after a crash and only reconnect by pressing the pair button. This is kinda ruins the whole automation experience.

@bernhard or @magicdude4eva or @MRobi can one of you guys give me what you have filled in configuration as an example? I am having issues trying starting up. Getting an endless loop of error:

Zigbee2MQTT:info  2020-10-25 12:41:28: Logging to console and directory: '/share/zigbee2mqtt/log/2020-10-25.12-41-28' filename: log.txt
Zigbee2MQTT:info  2020-10-25 12:41:29: Starting Zigbee2MQTT version 1.15.0 (commit #1.15.0)
Zigbee2MQTT:info  2020-10-25 12:41:29: Starting zigbee-herdsman...
Zigbee2MQTT:error 2020-10-25 12:41:48: Error while starting zigbee-herdsman
Zigbee2MQTT:error 2020-10-25 12:41:48: Failed to start zigbee
Zigbee2MQTT:error 2020-10-25 12:41:48: Exiting...
Zigbee2MQTT:error 2020-10-25 12:41:48: Error: Failed to connect to the adapter (Error: SRSP - SYS - ping after 6000ms)
    at ZStackAdapter.<anonymous> (/zigbee2mqtt-1.15.0/node_modules/zigbee-herdsman/dist/adapter/z-stack/adapter/zStackAdapter.js:92:31)
    at Generator.throw (<anonymous>)
    at rejected (/zigbee2mqtt-1.15.0/node_modules/zigbee-herdsman/dist/adapter/z-stack/adapter/zStackAdapter.js:25:65)
npm

magicdude4eva · October 25, 2020, 12:06pm

Here is my config - I am running on channel 25 and made some small logging adjustments (I am also running beta of HA)

data_path: /share/zigbee2mqtt
external_converters: []
devices: devices.yaml
groups: groups.yaml
homeassistant: true
permit_join: true
mqtt:
  base_topic: zigbee2mqtt
  server: 'mqtt://core-mosquitto'
  user: user
  password: passwd
serial:
  adapter: deconz
  disable_led: false
  port: >-
    /dev/serial/by-id/usb-dresden_elektronik_ingenieurtechnik_GmbH_ConBee_II_DEXXXXXX-if00
advanced:
  log_level: info
  last_seen: ISO_8601_local
  log_directory: /share/zigbee2mqtt/log/
  log_file: log.txt
  report: false
  pan_id: 62369
  channel: 25
  network_key:
    - 1
    - 3
    - 5
    - 7
    - 9
    - 11
    - 13
    - 15
    - 0
    - 2
    - 4
    - 6
    - 8
    - 10
    - 12
    - 13
  availability_blocklist: []
  availability_passlist: []
device_options: {}
blocklist: []
passlist: []
queue: {}
frontend:
  port: 8099
experimental:
  new_api: true
socat:
  enabled: false
  master: 'pty,raw,echo=0,link=/dev/ttyZ2M,mode=777'
  slave: 'tcp-listen:8485,keepalive,nodelay,reuseaddr,keepidle=1,keepintvl=1,keepcnt=5'
  restartdelay: 1
  initialdelay: 1
  options: '-d -d'
  log: false

ASNNetworks · October 25, 2020, 12:11pm

Thanks! I rebooted my RPI4 and used your settings and changed stuff to mine, works !

This is gonna take a while re-pairing all devices and re-naming them lol.

edit: @magicdude4eva one more question. I’m trying to create a group withing Z2M. That works fine, but the group is not exposed in HA (the individual devices are working fine). Any advice?

Edit: got it working, read the docs now

Gerben321 · October 25, 2020, 1:49pm

What do you guys recommend for a Conbee II stick to get Deconz running on a Raspberry? It has Raspbian with hassio installed on a SSD, should I install Deconz manually (can that be done headless?), or should I install the hassio addon? I’ve read that there are some downsides to the hassio addon. Or should I go with ZHA?

I’m using a Conbee II stick with Deconz on a W10 server which is 100% rocksolid. I’m installing another Home Assistant on another house and was wondering what’s the best/fastest/most solid way of use. I really like Deconz, and I’m not familiar with Z2MQTT or ZHA.

ASNNetworks · October 25, 2020, 1:58pm

If you have no issues with deCONZ and you’re not planning on buying a device that doesn’t work with deCONZ, I see zero reasons to switch over to Z2M or ZHA. If you are experiencing issues it might be worth it. But I’d advise to check if all the devices you have now are even supported with Z2M or ZHA before switching.

Gerben321 · October 25, 2020, 2:16pm

Thanks. I think Deconz works great, and all devices that I plan to add in the other home are also supported.

I am just not sure what’s the best way to install Deconz on the Raspberry with hassio.

ASNNetworks · October 26, 2020, 7:08am

I have migrated all my devices from deCONZ to Z2M. I like a lot of things but there are some stuff I really do not like. Either it’s bugged or it just isn’t supported correctly.

I notice taking and restoring snapshots of entities is really bad. Especially RGBW lights don’t work correct. I think it’s because Z2M handles states/attributes differently. When I change to a value, I see it’s not updated in HA yet. I also have reported: true set. Zigbee2mqtt shows all attributes last used with the entity. So if you change the RGB to red and then to a color temp (so not RGB), the entity attributes show the color temp but also what the last RGB value was. When taking a snapshot and restoring, it restores also the RGB value… That’s why the brightness gets restored and RGB if it’s from RGB to RGB. But otherwise it won’t restore it.

I really like other parts of Z2M though. It has a vast variety of supported devices. Also it supports more features of the devices I already used with deCONZ. Also I really like the new experimental GUI and that you can change entity ID’s straight away.

I am at a crossroads now though. I really love the features zigbee2mqtt brings. But the major drawback of not handling snapshots of RGBW lights correctly ruins the experience for some of my light automations…

Edit: found a thread that described by issue: https://github.com/home-assistant/core/issues/30618

For those few lights I might just create an automation based on time of day instead of snapshots. Is more work, but a small price to pay since I only have a few of them. Hopefully Z2M stays stable the coming days so I can keep it!

maxym · November 15, 2020, 8:42pm

I’m just after a day of trying to configure both Z2M and Deconz.
I was starging from scratch withotu any knowledge about how to work with those integrations.

TBH it was not as easy as I expected. Lacks in documentation adds to this picture (ie Z2M docs suggest using null for port. But HA disallows saving it)

With vanilla install of Z2M I failed to achieve anything. Logs sais everything is ok, but I was not able to pair anything. Actually I don’t know I should pair or add some yaml code at first. I found no document which would explain the workflow.

With deconz I succeeded to pair HueGo and hue Light Strip as well as some chineese Zigbee3 relay.
But after that all stopped responding. HA reacts on power on/off changing to unavailabe state, but I was not able to turn off lights. Not even in Phoscon (BTW I found no clear info what Deconz app is for exactly. Is it some low level monitoring tool only? When I deleted devices from Deconz, those appeared again after several secons while Phoson was requiring to reinitialize devices).

Anyway, the issue mentioned above shows again that integrations are the biggest weak point of HA. Those work until no unexpected scenario. If something fails, those integrations breaks apart resulting in even bigger mess. For example reporting to HA entities which not existing anymore, or even worse, reporting old (removed already) entities being a members of new devices (of course not working at all)
Here is example what HA automatic lovelace GUI shows after creating one scene (scene is named “active”:

You can see 2 scenes, but only one works (and only one has been created in Phoscon)

I know, that experienced user can find working workflow as well as workarounds. But I’m personally scared by number of entities created automatically, without any control, not working/responding without even possibility to remove them (because HA thinks that those are still reported by the Integration)

So if i could I would always opt for something less automated, less complex, even for cost of manual configuration. In this case I’m opting for Z2M. But first I need to make it just work with my devices.

Could anyone point me to some document describing workflow of pairing devices with Z2M?

BertrumUK · November 15, 2020, 8:46pm

The Z2M site has a full list of supported devices and how to pair each one. Is that what you are after ?

maxym · November 15, 2020, 8:50pm

Thank you for the quick answer.
Yes and no. I’m familiar with this list, but it doesn’t explain pairing workflow. Just random notes. See for example HueGo document: https://www.zigbee2mqtt.io/devices/7146060PH.html

I cannot see any information how to pair the device making Z2M to store data into mqtt.
Once it will be in mqtt I know how to use it. but I don’t know the procedure of connecting zigbee devices to Z2M.

I’m obviously missing some part of the puzzle.

BertrumUK · November 15, 2020, 9:06pm

If you have MQTT Discovery enabled in the addon Z2M will automatically add the MQTT entries to HA for you.

Here is my config for that part

homeassistant: true
permit_join: true
mqtt:
  base_topic: zigbee2mqtt
  server: 'mqtt://192.168.0.60:1883'
  user: xxxxmqttusernamexxxx
  password: xxxxpasswordxxxxx

As for the pairing, if it is not listed in the docs then a google search on how to put each device into pair mode would show you how to do it. If Z2M is set up correctly in HA then you should have a join button in a LL card so that the controller searches for devices to pair with

maxym · November 15, 2020, 10:26pm

I didn’t know about such card. I just had permit_join set to true. I understood it’s enough to allow persistent scanning fir new devices.

Where such card I can get from?

BertrumUK · November 15, 2020, 10:36pm

I set mine up a while ago and cannot find where I got the instructions from. You can use the Z2M frontend to do the same thing.

Enable ingress to have the frontend available in your UI: Supervisor → Dashboard → Zigbee2mqtt → Show in sidebar . You can find more details about the feature on the Zigbee2mqtt documentation.

maxym · November 15, 2020, 10:40pm

Yeah I saw that.
But when permit_join is true then this button is for disabling pairing.
I expect that any new paired device should appear on the list right? This is what I failed to achieve.
I have to start over again.

Thank you anyway. It’s too much off topic right now.

BertrumUK · November 15, 2020, 10:45pm

Is your stick being picked up by Z2M ? What stick do you have ?

I have a CC2531 and here is my config

serial:
  port: /dev/ttyACM0

This is my hardware being picked up in Supervisor

serial:
  - /dev/ttyAMA0
  - /dev/ttyACM0
  - >-
    /dev/serial/by-id/usb-Texas_Instruments_TI_CC2531_USB_CDC___0X00124B00193E5264-if00

Burningstone · November 16, 2020, 3:06pm

I’m sorry for the poor experience you had, but saying integrations are the weak part of Home Assistant is just not true, sound like you don’t understand what integrations are, because otherwise you would not say that z2m is the better way to go, as z2m also uses an integration to talk to HA, everything that communicatea with HA needs an integration.

For DeCONZ, I can tell you from my exoerience that it was extremly easy to setup and I had none of your issues in the last 3+ years. It’s basically:

Go To Phoscon
Choose the appropriate category (light, switch, sensor)
Press “add new xx”
Follow on-screen instructions (if pairing is not described on the screen, make a google search on how to out the specific device in pairing mode)
Add deconz integration to HA
Done

maxym · November 16, 2020, 3:23pm

I admit that if something works stright way as you described, then abviously integration(s) works as expected. The point is that those integrations are no able to cover corner cases because are not programmed for it. Those cover optimistic scenarious considering no problems which may happen.

I don’t know why my entities stopped to work. but I had real problem to get rid of them from ha. And in this case ai think the Integration should provide ultimate help/guidance to user

From my short experience, limited to a few integrations most problems integrations have are related to proper cleanup in case something goes wrong. renaming entities, removing them… all those operations sometimes doesn’t work or work in unexpected way.

Thats why I prefer components which creates data in mqtt. then those data can be transformed into entities in fully controlled way. I must not rely on code which doesn’t cover all possible scenarios.

Burningstone · November 16, 2020, 3:56pm

I don’t agree. Also how you described your scenario, it doesn’t sound like an edge case at all.

The MQTT integration has the same issues, there are countless topics about discovery not working, ghost entities, unavailable entities, and whatever for MQTT.