I have a gen 5 z-stick and have paired all my z-wave plus light switches to it and they work. I didn’t set a network key my configuration because I wasn’t sure if I needed it given the way the z-stick pairs.
However, I do see the following in an ozw log for a ndoe:
2018-02-26 06:43:06.809 Info, Setting Up Provided Network Key for Secure Communications
2018-02-26 06:43:06.809 Warning, Failed - Network Key Not Set
Should I set a network key in my configuration.yaml even though I pair all my devices directly with my z-stick?
The network key is only needed if you want to secure the z-wave network. If you want to use it, then you would need to set the key, restart HA, and then remove your zwave plus devices from the network and re-add them with the ‘add node secure’ option.
If I’m understanding you correctly, then I couldn’t use the z-stick’s pairing ability, instead I’d have to add everything through HA directly under config > Z-wave > Add Node Secure?
You shouldn’t be using the button on the Z-Stick anyway - from the docs:
Don’t use the OpenZWave control panel (OZWCP), or the physical button on a controller, to add or remove devices. Many devices will only send the information about their capabilities at the time you include them. If you use the OpenZWave control panel, or the button on a device, then Home Assistant won’t have that information. Using the physical button on a controller will also result in a non-security inclusion being performed, which may limit the features the device supports.
Thanks everyone for the information. When I read over the z-wave docs I must of skipped over that very clear warning - I guess I was too eager to press that button.
Now I have to go reset and add 43 dimmers/switches
One last question, my server is located in the basement so would there be any issues with adding z-wave devices that are stationary (like a light switch)? As I get higher up in floors, I imagine I would need the repeating power of my z-wave plus dimmers and do repeaters work while adding devices?
If they’re working, you’re ok. The problem is that there are a number of devices that cause problems if they’re added with the button - so the warning is generic to avoid the long threads with people grumbling that their devices don’t work. Most of the time you’ll be fine if you don’t need security, but the only way to find out is to add them with the button and see if they behave correctly… which isn’t ideal.
As for adding devices, as long as you’re only using Z-Wave Plus, you can add them in place.
42 of my 43 dimmers/switches are z-wave plus, I have one older Eaton dimmer because we couldn’t get a neutral to the location. The Eaton dimmer is so so, it needs polling and it showed up with two alarm sensors that I’ve hidden.
Are there any performance penalties to using security? I’m not even sure if the Jasco GE Dimmers (14294) have it enabled by default (or if it can be enabled).
I’m going to try removing one dimmer and add it back the correct way and see if I notice any differences.
Thanks again for the help, this pointed me in the right direction.
@will, as you’re adding devices they will announce and join in either secure or unsecure if the options are presented. Some devices require a secure pairing to get full functionality from them. A lot of battery powered sensors require secure pairing to get the battery information and tamper alerts. However if the device doesn’t use security it won’t hurt anything as there is a handshake during the pairing process. Security is announced and if not needed, it is not used, but if needed then the security key has been presented and the device will use it to pair. This should have been shorter Long story short. No, there’s no penalty for doing the pairing in secure mode.
Ok, very interesting and very good information to know.
Assuming I pair everything through HA, if I move to different hardware (such as a different z-wave stick) will the pairings (secure and unsecure) remain if the settings are the same?
There’s actually a bit of information stored locally on the z-wave stick. This is not specific to home assistant either. There’s a list of devices, id’s, etc that carries with the stick. Example, if you setup devices on your computer then decide to move to a raspberry pi running home assistant you can plug the stick in and magically the devices are able to discover. But if you move to a “new” stick you will have to do the pairing process all over again. Actually you will have to do an unpair then pair to get the devices to talk to the new controller.
I’ve done this whole cycle way too much in the last several months
No. The controller (the stick) holds all the information about the included (paired) devices. The one thing it doesn’t hold is the network key, so if you’re using security you must ensure you keep that safe and set the new system up with it.
I ended up resetting the z-stick and adding everything in the correct way. I was able to add in all my GE switches/dimmers securely (at least it says secured=“true” in the zwcfg_*.xml) and everything is working great.
The process was a little tedious but now I know the right way to add in devices.
So I’ve started noticing dead z-wave nodes since I’ve switched over to pairing with OZW/HA vs using the button on my z-stick.
The switches/dimmers will come back on the network if I turn them on and off or restart hass. I know a lot of people have had stability problems with z-wave and HA.
I had zero dead node issues when I was pairing everything with the z-stick unsecurely vs directly with HA (as a secure node). Could this be caused by being in secure mode vs unsecure or could it be something else?
I don’t think this would be a signal issue, even though my z-stick is in the basement I have 40+ z-wave plus powered switches dispersed throughout the house.
@will, are the devices that are dropping off the network the ones farthest away from the usb stick? Z-wave is interesting as (unless changed and nobody told me) a device won’t traverse more than 4 hops to the primary controller. So if you have devices that are widespread apart you may think everything is great because there’s like 20 other devices in between. Not the case as you only get 4 hops…
This 4 hop limitation is one thing that is driving ZigBee as it allows for more hops per single message. But then there’s using a primary/secondary or more setup with z-wave to overcome that hop limit.
It has been random, some have been further away and some have been extremely close. I’ve read about the 4 hop limit; is it possible to control if a device acts as a repeater?
Most if not all direct wired devices are also repeaters for the mesh, but the 4 hops is still valid to a controller. I really wish I had a mesh diagram… someone on here will pull one up
That is one of the purposes of doing a z-wave “repair”. It causes all of the nodes to ask who their neighbors are and they rebuild their routing table (for lack of better terminology) to optimize messages back to the controller. Ideally things will get sorted out and just work. But a mesh repair should be done after adding any new devices and the larger the network becomes the longer the repair will take for the nodes to all negotiate their best route.
The aeon labs Nano dimmer is a good replacement - works with both 2 and 3 wire installs (20 and 30 watts minimum load). Just ask for the latest firmware from aeon to get rid of some minor bugs.
Possibly. Secure increases the amount of traffic on the mesh, see the document I linked to before. If you can ditch that non Plus dimmer that may also solve the problem.
I came across this while doing research this morning:
Out of my 40+ switches I had to get two non-plus ones because of the location or other limiting factors.
The electrician couldn’t get a neutral to one location without opening up an ornate plaster wall in the foyer
The previous owner installed LED strip lights under the kitchen cabinets and I had to buy a Leviton VRMX1-1LZ to control a electronic low voltage DC supply
I’m going to try adding the switches back in with non-secure mode and see if I get better stability.
Long story short. No, there’s no penalty for doing the pairing in secure mode.
