Thanks Robert, I’ve already think about that, but I’m lazy and if Schneider propose this feature it will be easier
Question on the Geo/Insights+ system: is there any benefit at all in using this system if you already get real time electricity data via an optical sensor and batched electric and gas data via the bright app integration?
I’m trying to work out why you’d get an extra device for something bright offers for free without an extra IHD, if it’s the same thing.
Insights+ is pretty pointless if you’re already getting usage data elsewhere.
It’s standard usage and budgeting reports (with really hard to use line graphs) with some Wiser specific gimmicks (heating predictor, smart savings, did you know type stuff). Oh, and it tells you how many trees you need to plant to offset your carbon footprint.
I only got it because I have having problems with my existing IHD. Helpfully it enables integration with HA but I haven’t looked at it for ages (other than to check what it did for this post).
Thanks! So, what data exactly can you get via Insights+?
- real-time or 30-minute batched up electricity data?
- real-time or 30-minute batched up gas data?
Also is the data you get via insights+ retrieved ‘locally’ via a direct connection from HA to the Geo device, or is it retrieved by HA via the geo cloud via an internet connection and http requests?
My current assumption is that the Geo device connects to the meters via zigbee locally to get the data, but then uses wifi to send any data to the Geo servers. Then HA retrieves the data from geo servers.
I wonder if we could make the geo device send the data to HA directly instead of sending them to the Geo servers. Could perhaps be possible if this is done via MQTT between geo and geo servers by intercepting that connection. That would be similar to how localtuya works.
As a new owner of smart meters (having previously had really great h/w devices on my dumb meters to share the usage data with HA), I researched how I can get this same data into HA locally.
The answer is basically, you can’t. The only way to access smart meter data is via a registered vendor who can access the data from the central source (max 30 min increments) or via an IHD from a similar registered vendor such as GEO.
Each of these devices then connects via zigbee (with a protocol not supported by all the usual zigbee sticks and unregisterable for non approved vendors) and sends data to the vendor cloud. This can then allow access to realtime electricity data (depending on the IHD device you have) but a max of 30 min interval gas data as the gas meter does not send any data on zigbee on more than a 30 min freq to conserve battery in the meter.
GEO does seem to be the best for a number of reasons:
- It does capture current usage data (not all do)
- They have probably the best api to then access that data
- It is the integrated Wiser option for Insights+ but also has a HA integration to get directly from GEO into HA energy dashboard.
I would say that all my research determined that the data from Smart meters (which is suposed to be owned by the customer ie you and me) is generally hard to get hold of and you have somewhat limited options to do this, all of which are cloud based and rely on a api from the vendor (which vary in capability). In reality, I wished I had not bothered changing to smart meters as the solutions I had for my dumb meters was actually better and gave more granular data.
You can however (via GEO integration) also get your tariff info to calculate costs in HA energy dashboard.
This article was very helpful to me in understanding all this and what options there are.
EDIT: For anyone reading this for future ref.
It does appear that the Hildbrand Glow does allow local MQTT access from the CAD (it still sends this info to the cloud afaik however).
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I use Hildebrand (Glow) and their CAD. I get per second updates from Electricity and the normal 30mins for gas consumption. It has an MQTT feed.
This is used directly in the HA energy dashboard.
It is a good solution.
See this for more info.
Glow / Hildebrand Display - Local MQTT Access - Template Help - Third party integrations - Home Assistant Community (home-assistant.io)
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I was just about to suggest this too. I am planning on buying one of these once my SMETS1 meters are eventually upgraded and registered with the DCC.
Ok all these options achieve the same result:
A. Insights+: per-second electricity and 30-minute gas readings, via Geo cloud API. Needs purchase of a device, not too expensive, but internet-only. Possibly some minor delay due to cloud round-trip connection.
B. Hilderbrand Glow CAD: Same per-second electricity and 30-minute gas readings, via Hilderbrand cloud API. Needs purchase of their CAD that is more expensive than Insights+. Internet only again. Possibly some minor delay due to cloud round-trip connection.
C. Hilderbrand free Glow API without CAD: Gives access to 30-minute electricity and 30-minute gas readings, via the DCC. Free, no CAD, Some delay due to internet/DCC round-trip, no real-time electricity readings.
D. Building up a esphome device with an optical/reed sensor to read electricity meter directly: Best solution for electricity, instant real-time readings without cloud. Cost to build this device probably similar to insights+ CAD (under 20gbp). Some gas meters may also allow a similar device, but typically SMETS2 smart gas meters do not have magnets or LED counters on them to save battery, so that wouldnt work.
Combining C+D will give you local real-time electricity data and 30-minute gas data via internet, with only cost of the esp8266 device and a few parts.
Alternatively A looks to be the best option (Insights+), as it’s cheaper than B.
Someone who already does C+D wouldn’t benefit from solutions A or B.
No, Hildebrand is local after purchase of their CAD
The Hildbrand Glow IHD & CAD has local MQTT access by default, with MQTT cloud access on request.
It’s the only solution that allows local integration AFAIK.
Here’s a video about it:
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I don’t think the Magakid integration (which is based on the link I posted above) is supported anymore.
All the info is in the link I posted and there is even a link to a blueprint for the Hildebrand CAD in the post.
Further consideration is the Wiser insights + is not available to everyone with a smart meter. I have SMETS2 meters installed and Wiser cannot see them but Hildebrand can.
You can create the sensors using the MQTT platform in Home Assistant though, as detailed in the video, can’t you, even if the integration is no longer supported/working? I’m hoping so anyway, as this is the path I plan on taking once I know whether my SMETS1 meters are going to be upgraded or replaced. I don’t believe I can order the Hildebrand Glow until I know that as there are two different versions, one for SMETS1 and one for SMETS2. Either way I think they need to be talking to the DCC for Hildebrand to commission the Glow to connect to them, if I am understanding everything correctly.
Just checked and the video is referencing the same link you posted, so I think I have answered my own question about that. 
Yes, That’s how I did it. Built it manually.
The blueprint just does it for you and also lists the sensors under the the Hildebrand device, but hey you can do that too manually!
And yes you have to use the free Glow App to get them talking to the DCC before they will commission and let you buy the CAD, which makes a lot of sense otherwise you’d be wasting yur money
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I use this (Electricity Meter Interface - smart Zigbee meter for home electricity monitoring - frient) with zigbee2mqtt. It’s pretty expensive but it was an easy battery powered solution for me and works flawlessly.
That looks like it’s just for Elec?
Hildebrand monitors all your smart meters, both Gas and Elec. locally via ZigBee and outputs via Wi-Fi and MQTT locally to your chosen MQTT client. I use the mosquito addon in HA. No issues at all.
Even when the central regulation Smart Meter database (DCC) goes down.
And no I am not affiliated with Hildebrand 
Ah yes. No mains gas here so not needed. Just electricity.
I thought about getting one of those over a year ago as a stopgap for electricity monitoring, but it seemed excessive to spend money on it as a temporary solution for only half of my energy usage (the other half being gas).
When I reconsidered a few months later, due to the eternal wait for DCC connection and the energy companies (I’ve switched providers twice to try and move it forward more quickly) being completely useless and unable to tell me anything about when it will happen or expidite it, it’s been unavailable at Amazon every time I have looked since, which makes me wonder if it’s been discontinued (not that it matters really being Zigbee).
Anyway, I’m going to hold out now in the hope that my smart meters get sorted out in the next year and I can finally purchase the Hildebrand Glow.
Geo IHD / Insights+ gives real time electric and 30 minute gas data. There is also a HA integration for it that can be installed using HACS.
Note that you don’t have to email Geo customer services as your device is already enabled for api access for Insights+
I have a SMETS2 meter supplied by Eon.
It took a few emails with Eon, to get the costing data (standing charges and kWhr rates), to indicate correctly but they have been ok for 12 months+ now.
I dont have the Glow/Hidebrand CAD but signed up in February to their DCC sourced data feature for HA.
It took a week or so for the data to become available in HA but it did become ‘stable’ by 3rd March.
I then noted the daily elec & gas kWhr readings given on the SMETS display during March and compared it with the data values shown in HA.
The MCC data is (nearly) always low. See the table.
If it wasn’t for the fact, the values were consistently close, I would suspect they are sending me someone elses data!?
No gas figures have been received for 27th,28th & 29th March as of 1130hrs 30th March.
Electricity figures for these days all show < 0.5kWhr.
If you like accurate data, (what’s the point in not having accurate data?), the MCC data is useless…
(In my experience anyway).
To me, the Wiser Insights is handy and useful.
