HA compatible 0-10v dimmer that is a SOURCE not sink

Hardware
1

I bought a very expensive light fixture based on the supplier’s assurance I could use a standard 0-10v dimmer and the example he gave was a sink. Well… it arrived, tested, and it requires the dimmer be a 0-10v source type.

Shelly’s 0-10v dimmer is a sink.

Does anyone know of a HA controllable dimmer that is a source?

Linwood

PS. Yes, I’m pushing back on the supplier, but if he didn’t know the difference he probably doesn’t have a ready solution to an already designed product.

PPS. Can I just build a 110v → 10v DC supply and put it in series?

2

I am familiar with source and sink in TTL logic, but I’ve never heard of the term in regards to dimmers.

3

The 0-10v ones are strange, you don’t change the input power at all, there is a separate low voltage (10v) loop from the device to the dimmer. The dimmer changes it from 0-10v for min to max (min may or may not mean off).

The issue is what device supplies the 10v. Most cases (at least most hardware I can find) the lighting fixture does, and the dimmer sinks it. But there are devices where the dimmer itself is expected to provide the power source, those are termed source.

4

Please provide an example.

5

Well, the shelly 0-10v is one (https://kb.shelly.cloud/knowledge-base/shelly-plus-0-10v-dimmer )

This document from Lutron (https://assets.lutron.com/a/documents/048587_web.pdf) defines sink/source on page 5, and lists examples of both types from its product lines on the prior pages.

6

Try looking at the Zooz ZEN54.

7

I know what sink and source mean, it’s that in five years of participation on the Home Assistant forums, this is the first time I had ever heard of a 0-10V dimmer control.

8

Would a resistor between +10V and output help? It would “kinda” convert sink to source… (the question though is if you have +10V output available…)

9

That looks much better than the Shelly generally as it has an actual relay to cut power to the light when off. Thanks, I had not noticed it.

However, it doesn’t say if it is sink or source – I’ve asked Zooz. Hope I get the right answer!

10

I don’t. I’m wondering if one of the ubiquitous 120->12v sources would work with a divider to get to 10v, then feed it in series with the circuit. But I’m a bit afraid of trying it and potentially blowing up a $1000 light fixture.

11

So does anyone understand how 0-10v sink and source actually work?

I took a 10v bench DC power supply and hooked in series with my 0-10v Shelly dimmer thinking that would magically become (collectively) a 0-10v source dimmer. Didn’t work.

Using the power supply alone does work – well, mostly, it will vary only from about 4v to 10v and there’s not a big change, but it does work.

It just seems like there must be a simple way to change a sink to a source, but I’m missing it. I’m afraid to hook it in parallel, thinking the power supply will smoke the dimmer. I just don’t know what is going on inside the box.

12

I’ve been using the Qubino Flush 0-10v (Z-Wave) dimmer for several years now and it’s awesome, functioning as both a source and a sink (I use it to control a 2-10v motor input, which in turn reports its position feedback at 2-10v). Unfortunately I don’t think they make it anymore, now that Shelly has bought the company, but there is still some inventory laying around for sale.

1 Like
13

Thank you. I had seen some of those in my searching but it was not clear it solves the problem. Now that I know it might will look harder. Most availability I saw were dodgy looking web sites, but I’ll look harder.

I also haven’t gotten an answer (beyond we’ll check and get back to you, and it is the weekend) from zooz on theirs, but I ordered one for delivery tomorrow to try it. If it works it’s far better than the shelly as it has a relay to switch the light off when not in use.

I’ve watched a dozen youtube videos “explaining” 0-10v, and it’s amazing as almost everyone was emphatic on which end sourced the power – but about 80% said the drivers and 20% the dimmer. Haven’t found one that said “could be either, here’s how to tell”.

Also, I did some bench testing trying to determine how the shelly acts as a sink, thinking I could put a power supply together as a voltage divider with the shelly as one resistor, properly size the other, and yield 0-10v. Measured without a load with ohm meter I got drastically difference impedence than calculated from actual voltage change with the device moving from zero to 100%. Need to check my math now with fresh eyes, but it seems to be acting as more than just a variable resistive load.

14

So… this may be moot. In doing some testing I noticed strange results depending on how hard I pushed down with the meter probes, then picked up the Shelly and in moving it around found it gave different results. Checked all my temporary wiring, all was good, screws tight. Hmmmm…

Opened up, checked the PCB, can’t see anything loose. Put it back together and now it’s working.

It would appear the LED drivers are auto-sensing (sink/source). The shelly is definitely a sink only, but I assumed the driver required a dimmer that was a source because that’s the (non-smart) dimmer I was sent.

But I think it works with both, and it was not working with the Shelly because it was defective. There’s something loose somewhere in there. At this moment it’s working fine, controlling the light from its web page.

But it’s going back. I definitely shouldn’t have to shake it to make it work. The ZEN54 is coming in tomorrow, if it works that will be a better solution anyway.