Home assistant causing issues with SmartThings

This is a very weird issue that doesn’t make sense to me. I got my HA to connect to SmartThings and everything worked fine. I could control my ST devices and everything worked as expected.
Then a few days later all of my Zigbee devices that connect to ST were either offline or very delayed within ST. For example, I’d walk by my motion sensor connected to ST and it would not report motion to ST for like 30 seconds or more. If I opened my door with a contact sensor it would take 30+ seconds for ST to know that the door is opened. I tried the general troubleshooting steps like changing batteries and readding to ST but nothing helped.
As nothing within ST had changed and the only thing new was my HA having ST integration, I removed network access to HA and then slowly all of my Zigbee devices started working in ST like expected.
Has anyone else come across this? I don’t have HA doing anything to my ST devices at the moment. Not sure why HA would be causing this.

I can GUARANTEE HA isn’t causing this. Devices randomly offline for no good reason has been a ‘feature’ of the SmartThings infrastructure while they move away from the old Groovy platform and into the new LUA based infrastructure. HA connectivity is just an unfortunate coincidence of timing. (Also check the ST community site people have been barking about this for the last two and a half weeks)

Work the issue from the SmartThings side.

I disagree and can guarantee it’s HA. As soon as I remove network access to HA, ST works. As soon as I enable it, issue starts happening again. This started over a month ago. After it started happening I left HA with no network access and I had no issues. When I decided to give it a try again, the issue came back. While ST has had issues that others have mentioned, I personally haven’t had issues with mine and I’ve had it for years now. This issue only happens when I have HA connected to the network.
I also didn’t see any talk about the issue I am seeing on the ST forums. Could you send me one of the threads you see seeing?

One on the fb group

At least two more (possibly three) in the community.smartthings.com site but my search fu is currently failing me. Simply, dude it’s been weird. I’m trying to figure out exactly what they broke this time… Problem is they keep changing stuff so quickly and not documenting it.

Things that are currently happening recently that may impact you.:

St firmware v. 43 shipped on the 12th. (poster in the fb post had the issue on the 8th So unless that guy was in the beta we know it’s not that.)

St has been replacing target DTHs with drivers for the last month. Quite a few people reporting general ‘weirdness’ with the most reported issue being all devices in a certain class going offline.l at the same time.

Tons of devices offline on both versions of the mobile app. IOS version seems to be reporting more devices offline than not. Seems to be weird device caching issue or communication from mobile app to cloud. Uniqueness here - devices report offline in the app but still work if you’re using a non ST app to automate devices. (if your devices were unavailable in HA this was likely not it, they would have stayed controlled but show offline in the ST app)

Now as to why it’s not HA.

HA integration talks to the ST cloud. Goes no further. It can set a device state but it cannot edit device properties - or set online / offline state. The apis are designed to sequester smartapps (which the HA integration uses)

Zigbee devices speak to the ST hub hub reports to cloud > cloud reports to HA and your ST mobile app.

Now what COULD it be if it’s not that and things drop when I turn on HA? If it’s related to when you turn on whatever your running HA on, how close is it to your ST hub? What Zigbee channel is your ST hub using for Zigbee and what wifi channels do you use.

How I’d handle it.

Open a ticket with ST support. (yes I know they’re nearly useless since they folded the support desk in the Samsung consumer support - but get the ticket open anyway.) a few of the ST senior support staff are on the community site. Post this same issue there and one of the moderators will tag your post for them. There are logs available on the ST side that end users cannot see and they can see what was going on and they need the ticket ID to ‘legitimately’ look at your case.

I see what you are saying. I was initially running HA on a VM when I first noticed the issue so it’s distance to my ST hub would not matter. Before I made this post, I moved my HA to a thin client that I have hardware into my network. Unlike the FB link you posted, I don’t need to re-add my devices when the issue happens. As long as HA is offline, my devices communicate fine. When HA is online, my devices either reply with a delay or appear offline. If I put HA back offline, the devices don’t have a delay and eventually start to show that they are online as expected.

The best way I can show you the issue i am having is by recording my phone screen. I recorded the status of ST showing my door contact and I show my camera so you can see how quick ST reports the door opening and closing. While still recording my screen I walked to my thin client and plugged it in and walked back to my door to show how the contact sensor no longer updates instantly as it did when my HA had no network access. I then once again go to my thin client and remove the network cable and go back to my door to show how quick ST reports the door opening and closing. I hope this is enough to show that it does seem that HA is the culprit

Video is here:

The only Possible way it can be impacting this is interference (capacity or other) in network bandwidth on your local segment. Again because of the nature of how HA connects to ST. HA does NOT talk to the ST hub directly.

So you point at the video and say see?! Slow!

HA does create traffic on your network. And most of it in this particular case not because of HA.

So when your contact sensor switches state what happens is:

Sensor sends signal to mesh. Traverses zigbee network, meets hub. Hub uses either

If using a driver or a local capable DTH the hub processes the command. Then sends state to the ST Cloud.

If using a cloud DTH the hub passes the state to the st cloud.

The ST cloud processes the data and reacts by then:

Sending confirmation / state (if cloud dth) back to your hub
Sending status to your st mobile app
Sending status to your HA install integration

See how many network calls have happened both directions from your home network to ST cloud? One sensor state update has resulted in NO LESS THAN what is essentially 4 copies of the same message and all of them are at the mercy of your Internet bandwidth and speed.

If just turning on your HA install and linking it to ST is slowing things down (which can also result in offline in the mobile app - remember all the ST mobile apps default to ‘offline’ whenever they get confused)

Its not HA. It’s the network.

Again. Call st support if you’re interested in fixing this. Thier internal (read the ones you can’t see in the IDE) logs can include all the info (detailed timestamps) to diagnose this condition

Now based on this additional information. Personally I’d get a good quality Zigbee USB stick and install ZHA or Zigbee2MQTT and dump the ST hub. It will be night and day compared to your current experience. Sub second response times - reliably.

The contact sensor is is ST contact sensor so communication with my ST hub is local.

Does HA produce that much traffic that a local zigbee devices can have these delayed responses? I have ST configured with Alexa and Google Assistant which should be getting the state updates the same way that HA would if I am not mistaken.

I guess this is my only option. Just odd that I only get this issue if HA is online. None of my other ST integrations have caused this issue.

That’s the plan but I wanted to start with this integration first to make sure that I can accomplish everything that I currently can.

Not exactly.

The contact sensor communicates locally through the zigbee mesh to the hub. If the sensor (ST or otherwise) uses a DTH it could be local or cloud. If it’s a custom DTH it’s guaranteed Cloud. That’s simply the way the Groovy infrastructure works. If your sensor is a branded Smartthings sensor there’s a chance it could be using a local DTH - but honestly it’s more likely cloud unless you SPECIFICALLY ensured that it was setup to run that way.

If it’s a Driver (NEW LUA infrastructure) the hub will process the command locally but STILL has to send the result to the cloud before HA ever sees anything.

No HA isn’t ST is producing the traffic because of the MULTIPLE round trips to multiple clouds. If HA isn’t in the mix there’s about half the comms because you eliminate the status calls from HA to the ST cloud and back. I know it’s a nuance - but this is a key concept. ST is a cloud based architecture at its core - EVEN if you use local devices and the LUA infrastructure to ensure actions are processed on the hub - you STILL have to round trip at least 2 more times AFTER the initial HUB <> ST cloud exchange for both HA and your mobile app (I don’t know about you but my phone is on my local LAN when I’m at home) to agree on status. We all know how the new ST mobile app handles bandwith issues.

Because it’s multiplying your round trips.

They do, and they add to the bandwidth IF you have your Alexa app / GH app open on your local phone. Otherwise, the state update stops in the Amazon / Google cloud. The difference here is the state report doesn’t re-enter your network unless you’re actively trying to get status from one of those services.

I get you - but I will also add you’re fighting a losing battle to try to make the cloud integration more responsive. You’re going to deal with bandwith issues, internet lag (x6, see previous) AND all of the issues the ST infrastructure currently has.

Yes, I know I sound down on the ST infrastructure - for the record I’m a fan of what they’re doing with LUA, I’ve studied their infrastructure and the plans ahead, there’s some really good stuff for a nontechnical user if they can get through this migration, cast off some of the old baggage, and create a decent rules API builder (what will be required to replace WebCore properly for them) .

The basic problem I have with their current state is they did an EPICALLY bad job of deployment of the refresh. ST is good for some - and to kick the tires in your situation, it’s great. But if you want a performant HA system with Zigbee or Zwave - simply DON’T use ST as your Zigbee/Zwave coordinator and I’d ABSOLUTELY not waste a single second on trying to make it performant. As Montgomery Scott says, “not a miracle worker, I cannot break the laws of physics…”

I ensured it was local. With the new way of doing routines, there’s the new local icons and I do get that for routines I created with this sensor.

What is multiplying my round trips?

In my video was using the ST app and not HA. So wouldn’t HA just being online be equivalent to my ST just being connected to my Google and Alexa accounts?

I just wanted to make sure that I could replicate my current setup before I invest into buying the additional hardware for HA. One quick example is HA doesn’t use the modes that ST does and I use that extensively. I’m trying to figure out what’s the best way to replicate it so for now I wanted to just have both connected while I do one of the different kinds of automations that I have but as the point of this post, it’s been impossible since as mentioned everything stops working just with HA being online. I know you say it’s not HA but something within HA must be doing it that’s the only time when things don’t work as they should.

Great! its local - but it doesn’t stop the round trips.

Nope - When ST sends info to Google or Amazon - it leaves ST cloud and heads to Google or Amazon. When a status update leaves ST cloud and goes to HA - where is that destination? It’s inside your network.

Open the ticket with ST and ask for the logs.

I ended up disabling all of my hue bulbs since I can get to them directly from SmartThings and the issue has gone away. Hope this help someone so might have had the same issue as me.

I have a similar issue. I have 3 TV’s connected to ST. HA connected to ST as well. 2 of my TV’s always online and older TV goes offline in exactly 60 minutes after powering it off (through any source: HA, ST or physical remote).
Have no idea how to get it back online remotely.
I have 2 options here:

  1. turn it on with physical remote
  2. install controllable power switch and trigger power. TV gets back online if I disconnect power cord and connect it back.

On that TV I have latest FW and it works perfectly fine when online.