It would be great if it comes with a migration tool from deconz to zha. Is that possible or is it to reconnect all my zigbee devices?
Home Assistant SkyConnect - official radio USB dongle will be compatible with both Zigbee and OpenThread (including Matter/CHIP over Thread)
As it is the same radio as used in the Yellow, the same migration process released in 2022.10 is likely to work with SkyConnect.
My migration from a Sonoff USB 3.0 to a Yellow Zigbee radio was far from seamless, but worked in the end.
I’ll pre-order one.
Just to clarify, when it arrives I will be able to easily migrate my Zigbee 3.0 mesh and devices over to this stick right?
I set up the new stick to run both Zigbee 3.0 and Thread at the same time.
I Will be able to continue to use my Zigbee devices and start buying new thread ones and everything will continue to work (old devices and new thread ones).
I currently have about 20 Zigbee devices.
I am running ZHA using HAOS on an Intel Nuc
Is all this correct?
As of today, SkyConnect only claims to be Zigbee out of the box.
Thread is nothing more than good intentions at this point. I believe them sincere intentions, but I’ve not bought anything based on promises in decades.
There are no Matter/Thread mentions at all the in beta 2022.11 release notes, but things might change. I’d expect we’ll here something more in the “State of” stream on the 13th.
My step up is a conbee (l) and software is deconz. Is the entities bound to the stick or to the software?
If the entities is bound to the stick can I just uninstall deconz then install zha and my entities will show up?
Or should I use a backup file from deconz?
How did you proceed? And can you please describe the bumps you notice?
How should I proceed?
Sorry but no, backup files from other applications are not compatible and seamless migrations are not possible, so far only partial Zigbee network migrations to the Home Assistant’s own native ZHA integration component (HA’s built-in Zigbee implementation) from some third-party Zigbee hub/gateway/bridge application software (like example from Zigbee2MQTT) is not possible without re-joining/re-pairing Zigbee devices, and you still at the very least will need to at least reconfigure automations and dashboard cards for all Zigbee devices.
Update! For partial Zigbee2MQTT or deCONZ/Phoscon migration to ZHA see these guides:
- https://skyconnect.home-assistant.io/migrate-conbee/ (migrate deCONZ/Phoscon to ZHA)
https://skyconnect.home-assistant.io/migrate-zigbee-zha/ (migrate Zigbee2MQTT to ZHA)
- https://skyconnect.home-assistant.io/migrate-zigbee-backup/ (migrate Z2M backup)
Again, migration from deCONZ/Phoscon or Zigbee2MQTT is not seamless, as it will only migrate the Zigbee network, (that way you at least do not need to run around and re-pair/re-join all your devices), unfortunately, it does not migrate the entries in Home Assistant so still need to rename those devices and update any automations and scripts that are using the old device names.
There is currently no migration path to migrate all settings, devices and entities to Home Assistant ZHA.
That is, while Zigbee2MQTT or Dresden Elektronik’s Phoscon/deCONZ can be integrated into Home Assistant they are still external third-party standalone Zigbee hub implementations, so there are no current methods for seamlessly migrating devices and entities from them to another Zigbee hub implementations. Similar to how you can not seamlessly migrate devices from Philips Hue Bridge, IKEA Trådfri Gateway, or Samsung SmartThings Hub.
You have to move one device at a time, and the best practice for that is by resetting the device to factory default settings (following instructions from its manufacturer) and then joining it to the ZHA integration as if it is a new device because it will be a new device for Home Assistant’s own ZHA integration and the Zigbee network that it manages via the Zigbee Coordinator.
The only supported seamless migration scenario is that you are already using Home Assistant’s own ZHA integration with another Zigbee Coordinator USB adapter and what to migrate your existing ZHA integration to the Home Assistant SkyConnect USB Stick.
You guys are missing/misunderstanding the current underlying compatibility requirements for migration to the Home Assistant SkyConnect USB Stick from any other Zigbee Coordinator adapter that you are using in the ZHA integration, which meant that you need to already be running the ZHA integration (having already a running Zigbee network on a Zigbee Coordinator adapter inside the ZHA integration), at least for the migration feature to work today.
Firstly, there is currently only planned seamless migration compatibility within each Zigbee hub/gateway/bridge application (e.i. from ZHA to ZHA, or from Zigbee2MQTT to Zigbee2MQTT). Meaning there is currently no planned migration compatibility for seamlessly migrating between different Zigbee gateway/hub applications.
The only support migration paths are within Home Assistant’s native ZHA integration to migrate between different brands and models of supported Zigbee Coordinator adapters. Such as for example migrating from a CC2530/CC2531 USB dongle or ConBee/RaspBee that you currently are using in ZHA integration to this new Home Assistant SkyConnect USB Adapter.
This means that migration from any third-party Zigbee implementation to Home Assistant’s native ZHA integration is not supported. That goes if you want to migrate from Zigbee2MQTT or Phoscon/deCONZ to the ZHA integration, however you can reuse the same Zigbee Coordinator hardware but it will be reset and you need to start from scratch re-pairing all devices and losing any configuration.
So in practice, that means you currently cannot migrate from Zigbee2MQTT/Z2M (which is a third-party Zigbee gateway/hub software) nor migration from Desden Elektrik’s Phoscon/deCONZ applications (another third-party Zigbee gateway/hub software) to Home Assistant’s own ZHA integration (first-party Zigbee gateway/hub integration built-in/embedded into Home Assistant that depends on the zigpy project).
The exact same goes if wanting to migrate from any third-party Zigbee gateway/bridge/hub appliances such as example Philips Hue Bridge, IKEA Trådfri Gateway, or Samsung SmartThings Hub, etc.
Understand that all those other Zigbee implementations are from third parties after all so you should never expect migration compatibility even if it could technically be developed in theory for projects whose code are fully open source like Zigbee2MQTT if the developers was ever motivated to do so.
At least at this time, migration between different applications/projects (i.e. between different gateways/hubs from different developers) is not possible as for such compatibility to potentially be partially possible in the future all applications need to use the same Zigbee network backup format (e.i. exporting/saving Zigbee network and Zigbee Coordinator database), but even then that would only stores/saves the Zigbee network/coordinator layer and not the overlying application layer(s) which contains device configurations/settings. However, ZHA/zigpy and Zigbee2MQTT/Z2M developers have together been working on the “Open ZigBee Coordinator Backup Format” which is a unified backup format for the underlying Zigbee network layer (but does not include the overlying application layers).
Secondly, currently only the ZHA integration supports migrating between different Zigbee Coordinator radio types (Zigbee chips from different manufacturers).
That just means that if you are already using the ZHA integration with any Zigbee Coordinator radio type (from any compatible manufacturer) then you can within the ZHA integration migrate to a different Zigbee Coordinator radio type from any other compatible manufacturer. So only if you are already using a ConBee/RaspBee adapter or another type of Zigbee Coordinator inside the ZHA integration then you can migrate to Home Assistant SkyConnect USB Stick or another Zigbee Coordinator adapter.
So to clearify, that does not mean that you can migrate to the ZHA integration if you have been using that ConBee/RaspBee adapter inside Zigbee2MQTT/Z2M (which is a third-party Zigbee gateway/hub software) or inside Desden Elektrik’s Phoscon/deCONZ applications (another third-party Zigbee gateways/hubs software) which can also use a ConBee/RaspBee adapter as a Zigbee Coordinator.
The developers of Zigbee2MQTT/Z2M (which again is a third-party Zigbee gateway/hub software) have also mentioned similar to allow backup and migration between different Zigbee Coordinator radio types within Zigbee2MQTT/Z2M) which if implemented will enable migration from a Zigbee Coordinator radio type from one compatible manufacturer to a different Zigbee Coordinator radio type from any other compatible manufacturer within Zigbee2MQTT/Z2M (which again is a third-party Zigbee gateway/hub software). Again that does will not automatically mean compatibility to support migration between different Zigbee gateway/hub applications but it is a first step towards laying the underlying grundwork for developers to add that in the future. See the related discussion for Home Assistant SkyConnect USB Stick support in Zigbee2MQTT/Z2M (which depends on zigbee-herdsman project) and development on backup for it here → https://github.com/Koenkk/zigbee-herdsman/issues/319
Finally, if you ever want to be able to migrate from Desden Elektrik’s Phoscon/deCONZ Zigbee gateway application (e.g. Phoscon or deCONZ gateway/hub software wirh ConBee or RaspBee) then you should try to convince that company’s developers to add support for exporting and importing to/from “Open ZigBee Coordinator Backup Format”, see this related feature request here → https://github.com/dresden-elektronik/deconz-rest-plugin-v2/issues/12
Wow! What a respons!
So if I want to migrate today from deconz to ZHA I have to re-pair all my zigbee devices to ZHA that is linked to Sky connect?
Is there any sign that Dresden is planing to add support to import to/from with the open zigbee backup format?
Correct, you’d have to re-pair your devices to any other USB stick.
… and …
Unfortunately, no. But you could try convincing the developer team at deCONZ.
That’s bad. Lets hope that deconz will implement this. I think it will be great to use Home Assistants stick just for the tight intergration. Maby @agners can help us?
Is Conbee II ready for matter/thread or will there be a version 3?
thanks for that awesome response! @Hedda …Well at least I went with ZHA (and staid with it) from the start! I think I will sit this move out a while… happy to just be a beta tester (not alpha!)
The official SkyConnect adapter which this discussion is about will be very thighty integrated with Home Assistant OS, the ZHA integration as well as their comming Thread/OpenThread and Matter/CHIP integrations if that is what you mean.
You can always request it from Dresden Elektrik to show interest but do understand that Phoscon/deCONZ is third-party software developed by a company with their own solutions so maybe not realistic to expect too much openness and as tight integrations with applications that is not their own. Again, as developers from Dresden Elektrik will not be reading this forum it is better if you post your feedback to them there instead → [REQUEST] Open ZigBee Coordinator Backup Format support for Zigbee network backups and restoring from and to ConBee/RaspBee (deCONZ based adapters) · Issue #12 · dresden-elektronik/deconz-rest-plugin-v2 · GitHub
ConBee II is based on an older Zigbee-only SoC chip so it can not be updated to support Thead/OpenThread or RPC multiprotocol firmware. I did however read a roumor somewhere a while ago that a ConBee III is in development by Dresden Elektrik’s engineers but no idea if their adapter will also support Thread/OpenThread and RPC multiprotocol or if it will be Zigbee only with a newer SoC chip. Regardless that is really off-topic for this discussion so let us not steal this thread to talk about what third-parties are or are not working on.
Once more - thanks for a super response.
I have booked a sky connect and want to use it, but re-pairing all my devices scares me a bit.
How can I make the migration as painless as possible?
It will not be a true migration as you should factory reset all devices one at a time before pairing/joining it to the new Zigbee network. Instead you will be building any new Zigbee network from scratch. So connect mains-powered devices before any battey-powered devices, and preferably begin by connecting newer mains-powered Zigbee 3.0 devices.
If you already own loads of main-powered Zigbee 3.0 products that are know to act as good ”Zigbee Router” (range extender/repeater) devices then start by pairing/joining a few of those first after factory resetting them.
If you do not already own that many mains-powered Zigbee Router devices and have a large house then suggest buying a few know good Zigbee 3.0 products as dedicated repeaters/extenders, (such as IKEA Tradfri Signal Repeater, or reflashed Sonoff ZBDongle-E and ZBDongle-P from ITead).
After connecting those mains-powered Zigbee Router devices they will after around 24-hours have created a stable Zigbee network mesh that you can use as a backbone to make sure you got always-on devices that make sure get great coverage needed as Zigbee signals does not have good range or wall penetration. Meaning additonal added devices will connect to the closest Zigbee Router with the stongest signal reception instead of directly to the Zigbee Coordinator.
Wait around 24-hours before lastly connect battery-powered devices as those will not extend your mesh network but will connect to a closer Zigbee Router if you already have those in place and will have had time to build a network mesh.
Good to know is that while mains-powered Zigbee Router devices will automatically reconnect to other Zigbee Router devices if one dies, (repairing the mesh network given time, again normally around 24-hours), many battery powered devices will not automatically connect to a Zigbee Router with stronger signal if it is added after the battery powered devices was initially paired.
Regardless read and follow all the best practice guidelines here → https://github.com/zigpy/zigpy/wiki/Generic-best-practice-tips-on-improving-Zigbee-network-range-and-general-stability
Thanks for the tips, but i have som questions.
Why should I flash IKEAs singnal repeter?
Is it possible to run two zigbee network?
I think @hedda was only talking about flashing the Sonoff dongles since they default to being a coordinator. Shouldn’t be any need to flash an Ikea repeater. He’ll correct me if I’m wrong.
Yes, you can continue to run deconz side by side with ZHA, and move devices from one to the other at your leisure. No need to do a rushed all-at-once conversion. I would advise against the rushed approach.
General consensus is your ulitmately best with a single bigger/stronger/more robust mesh network, but there is nothing “wrong” with two nets. Just plan accordingly, avoid conflicting channels, make sure there are enough router devices for each net as you migrate.
As jerrm noted, I meant that you can flash ITead’s Sonoff branded “ZBDongle-E” and “ZBDongle-P” with Zigbee Router firmware as either of those can make great Zigbee Router devices when flashed with alternative firmware if then used in a USB charger for power so can be placed anywhere as a stand-alone device. The benefit is that these have an excellent modern radio and external antenna + get the latest cutting-edge firmware so will work better as dedicated Zigbee Router devices than practically any other commercial dedicated Zigbee signal repeater device products out there. Other than having to reflash firmware and not coming with a power supply the downside is that they are ugly and large so not as easy to hide away out of sight.
IKEA Trådfri Signal Repeater already ships with Zigbee Router firmware by default so it does not need to be reflashed but it is still a good idea to update its firmware via OTA (Over-The-Air) after it being paired/joined to Zigbee solution. The benefits of the IKEA Trådfri Signal Repeater as a product are that its default firmware it ships with works out-of-the-box with all Zigbee solutions and it comes with a power-supply. The downside is that it uses older firmware (even after updating firmware via OTA) and it does not have as strong radio + internal antenna so gets weaker reception. Yet is does have a better radio and antenna than most other dedicated Zigbee signal repeater device products that are sold with Zigbee Router firmware by default.
Anyway, if starting a new Zigbee network from scratch then I generally recommend buying and connecting at least three mains-powered dedicated Zigbee Router devices at the beginning before adding any other devices to let them create a stable mesh network which will act as the backbone network that is always on and always available. If they already have the correct firmware then simply join/pair them to get good coverage and range, add additional mains-powered Zigbee devices, then wait around 24-hours before adding any battery powered Zigbee devices.
Not in ZHA. Not in Phoscon/deCONZ or Zigbee2MQTT either, though they have the benefit of being external stand-alone Zigbee hubs/gateways so could technically allow you to install several instances of Phoscon/deCONZ and Zigbee2MQTT as long as each instance has its own Zigbee Coordinator adapter. However, you can run ZHA, Phoscon/deCONZ, and Zigbee2MQTT separately and run them all side-by-side at the same time as long as they all have their own dedicated Zigbee Coordinator adapter, just as you can also have a Philips Hue Bridge, an IKEA Trådfri Gateway, and a Samsung SmartThings Hub in the same house too.
They will all work separately by themselves as there is no knowledge or communication with each other at the Zigbee layers as they will all be on their own isolated private network that uses unique encryption using a random encryption key. They are fully isolated from each other and their signals will only slightly interfere if using the same Zigbee channels, (still, Zigbee signals are very weak so Wi-Fi much stronger signals will always interfere a lot more). Any interaction between them has to be done via integrations at the application layer, i.e. in Home Assistant.
Also, be aware that Zigbee Coordinator adapters can only be connected to one Zigbee solution, and also that a Zigbee device can only be connected to one Zigbee Coordinator. So you can never connect a Zigbee Coordinator adapter to two Zigbee solutions, nor connect a Zigbee Router for Zigbee End Device to two Zigbee solutions as they will be using different Zigbee Coordinator adapters. Rules are as such, one Zigbee Coordinator per Zigbee solution, one Zigbee network per Zigbee Coordinator, and one Zigbee Coordinator for each device.
This is really all due to Zigbee specification limitations so maybe best if you read up on the Zigbee protocol technology/architecture, suggest start with wikipedia → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zigbee
Thanks for a great response. My plan is this.
- Connect Skyconnect and link it to ZHA. Will leave my current system via deconz via its selected channel.
- Link some IKEA reapeaters to ZHA and let the system stand for at least 24 hours.
- Transfer my devices from deconz to ZHA and will start with the ones with power then battery operated.
- Which channel(s) is best for zigbee?
- Is it possible to factory reset Hue easily or do I have to do it in their hub?
It depends, (regardless note that Zigbee channel needs to be set in YAML config before you start the initial installation flow as can currently not be changed in ZHA after setup Zigbee network and for now you need to do full backup then restore if want to change to a other Zigbee channel later), see ZHA docs section about it → https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/zha/#defining-zigbee-channel-to-use
See ZHA docs section under troubleshooting about that → https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/zha/#add-philips-hue-bulbs-that-have-previously-been-added-to-another-bridge
By the way, suggest contributing to ZHA docs to make it better and easier to understand if possible, but regardless please do read it all anyway.
Is the photo of the device accurate?
I am a bit sceptic about case design, without antenna or at least connector for external one.
is there some info about coverage and/signal stability?
I got no more info. But assume no connector for external antenna. I assume that its circut board either got a good deaign ”PBC trace antenna” or a high quality ”Ceramic chip antenna”. Regardless Zigbee uses network mesh technology so you will always want to use/have many mains-powered Zigbee Router devices which will act as always-on range extenders / signal repeaters when building a new Zigbee netword in order to get better coverage, read → Generic best practice tips on improving Zigbee network range and general stability · zigpy/zigpy Wiki · GitHub