I ordered the Yellow and it should hopefully be arriving in the next couple of weeks. I’ve been researching z-wave capabilities and the info on the Crowd Supply page says it’s compatible with Aeotech’s Z-Pi 7. However, 1. it’s barely available anywhere and 2. the one site I found that had them in stock does not carry it for the US market. So it looks to me (especially considering the lack of any info whatsoever about the product on Aeotech’s own site), the US version is still (many many months later) not released.
Does anybody know any more about this? More importantly, is that the only z-wave option? Something I read gave me the impression that it is. But I find that hard to believe since there’s always workarounds for just about any issue. Please enlighten me (even if it’s not great news), I have quite a few z-wave devices and would need to migrate them to Hubitat or something if it’s a no-go. Thanks for any info you may offer.
The question is, are you looking to use an USB device or an internal serial device on the Yellow pin header?
I’m using an Aeotec Z-Stick Gen5 on a RPi4 BUT this required a hardware mod to fix a manufacturing error (USB D+ pulled-up to 5V rather than 3V3). The Gen5+ has this fixed and can also support S1/S2 security modes. These fixes work on a RPi4, which strongly suggests the very similar hardware of the RPi CM4 will also work.
The other option is to use something like a RaZberry, or Aerotec Z-Pi 7 module which use serial header pins. The RPi4 serial interface causes issues with Bluetooth (shared interface needs remapping), but the CM4 might be different. There were early reports of the Amber case working with the RaZberry connected internally, but I’ve not heard anything definitive since for Yellow. The Pi 7 is also a 700 series interface which has some advantages.
Personally, I moved from a RaZberry to a modified Z-Stick Gen5 as the kit was bought previously, and moving a USB stick is simpler than remapping serial / Bluetooth. I also wonder if having several radios close together is a good idea.
Once more folk have the Yellow, and the CM4 image stabilises, I might move from a 500 to a 700 series Z-Wave device - but then there will be more certainty around physical space in the case, port setup and interference (mentioned again on the 2022-08 release party regarding Bluetooth resets). I’m certainnly going to use a USB 90degree adaptor to get the stick aerial away from the plane of the PCB.
AeoTec were mentioned as working with Nabu Casa / Z-Wave JS on firmware updates, so there might also be a chance of “Works with HASS Yellow” being confirmed.
Hi,
can you be more specific on this? As far as I understood you have to turn Bluetooth off to get the hat working on a Pi4? Is that not so when you say “remapping” it sounds like you could reconfigure something that Z-wave and Bluetooth both will work.
I am asking, because I got a really cheap Razberry2 Hat and tried to install it yesterday. Without any luck until I came across the fact that I had to edit the config file and thought I will loose Bluetooth then. I don’t want to lose BT because eventhough not using it yet, I am counting a little bit on the BT support in the new HA version…
I actually only have 5 Z-Wave device: 2x dimmers and 3x roller shutters /shade control. Since everything else is with Zigbee, I am thinking about changing those to zigbee as well instead of spending 50+ Euros on a Z-wave usb dongle or just get a bluetooth one and disable bluetooth for the hat (could be the cheaper way…)?!
The RPi4 has multiple serial UARTs in the BCM hardware, so I’ve read it is possible to retain Bluetooth and use the serial i/f on P8+P10. This is something I specifically avoided by moving to a USB Z-Wave device, so Google Is Your Friend!
N.B. You may see benefit from creating a Z-Way install on a spare uSD to maintain the RaZberry firmware. https://z-wave.me/support/uzbrazberry-firmwares/
I had issues with Z-Wave delays for dead devices (openHAB Z-Wave stack is pretty good, but couldn’t reverse engineer the proprietary commands well enough) so used Z-Way to un-associate from the radio, and also apply several firmware updates.
I’m also trying to figure out should I go with Aeotec Z-Pi 7 or Z-Stick 7 with HA Yellow. I believe they offer the same features and the main difference is that other fits in the case and leaves one USB port free. In that sense it sounds tempting to go with Z-Pi and have cleaner look.
I was wondering will it be as easy to upgrade the firmware through Yellow with both of them? So far there has been known bug in the firmware so I assume it needs to be upgraded in future too. Maybe Z-Stick 7 is easier to upgrade since you can take it to Windows PC to do it?
I also tried to understand the previous conversation regarding Bluetooth. I was planning to order CM4 with wifi and bt. So will I need to shutdown bt module with Z-Pi or at least tinker the configuration some not so easy way to make it work? Is Z-Stick 7 free from that hassle?
Basically, USB devices just work. They can easily be moved to a PC for those suppliers who stubbornly only release proprietary tools. Many options make bodges work!
I used a RaZberry for years (on RPi serial headers), and it worked, but needed a separate uSD and OS install for updates. It also needed a custom board to lift the aerial away from a metal heat-sink case ground plane after upgrading to a RPi4. With Yellow, you might need a separate RPi for maintenance - not necessarily a bad thing as gives a cold-spare.
Until someone gets a Yellow, tests serial port pin header access, Bluetooth device access, and the physical compatibility of the inside of the case with a specific board, I’d wait as we’re guessing.
With the high-profile of HASS it’s possible that all Z-Wave devices will get some support, but after the complete denial of Aeotec over the original Gen5 hardware issues (looked like a PCB layout cock-up to me), I’m still sitting this one out until a proven device emerges.
When my own Yellow kit arrives, it will be connected to a 90degree USB adapter (vertical for better RF) and a hardware-fixed Aeotec Z-Stick Gen5.
Years in IT have taught me to avoid making architectural decisions before they are required. Wait until you NEED something - more available information will very likely yield a better decision.
Do you have an update on this? I have a yellow on order with a CM4 that has Wi-Fi/Bluetooth and want to add Z-wave capability but I’m not sure how to proceed. I prefer using an internal Z-wave board on the Yellow header if it’s compatible with CM Bluetooth. I that doesn’t work I’ll go to a USB Z-Wave stick. Or I’ll disable the CM4 BT and use an internal Z-wave and use a BT USB dongle. Has anyone explored these options and have a recommendation on a preferred reliable and non-fiddly option?
Hi all together - being in the same postion as @def1149 - anyone tested this setup? I have the Aotec Gen5 Z-Wave Stick - unfortunately my Stick died. And it is running on a old Pi3b setup. Thinking of buying a Home Assistant Yellow and need ot buy a new Z-Wave device - either Aeotec Z-Pi 7 or Z-Stick 7. The most advantage for me for the Z-Stick was that you could plug it into a laptop to perform firmware updates. How is this wokring with thte Z-Pi 7 head?
Sorry - no updates on Yellow compatibility with a serial-header based Z-Wave controller from me as frankly, I think they are a silly idea!
USB devices are more common, more compatible, and can be updated on any device if the manufacturer decides to go stupid-locked-in-to-windows for updates.
As long as you avoid a coordinator on a blue USB-3 port (search for the RF interference video), all is good.
Nabu Casa have all but stated their renamed "SkyConnect" Zigbee product is going to be joined by a Z-Wave coordinator, but there’s no dates.
I’ve been using the Zooz ZAC93 Z-Wave 800 controller that plugs into the Yellow header for 6+ months without any Z-Wave problems at all. It works flawlessly with all my devices including old 500 series devices. My yellow is centrally located on the first floor of a two-story 3000 square foot house. I ended up going with an ESPHome Bluetooth Proxy for Bluetooth because one of my Bluetooth devices had intermittent connectivity issues likely due to USB interference.
Thanks guys - I think I will stick with the USB version. However I wonder if I should get a gen5+ or a gen7 - as I read a warning on the HA site stating that the EU version has some RF issues. As I’m using the EU frequencies I would have to stay with an EU version.
I have bad experience with the 700 series ZWave controller, frequent jamming and sometimes complete lock-up of the stick. Issues are still not resolved in the latest firmware from the (only) chip manufacturer. See Aeotec Provided 7.20.2 Firmware for USB 700 Stick - #18 by wimjanse
Why silly? They work great, don’t require any external stick.
There are no silly solutions if people are using it and are happy with it.
I’ve tested Razberry 7 and 7 Pro, keeping 7 as pro also has external antenna and will definitely not drill a hole in case to get it out.
Here’s my experience, which lead to my “silly comment”. YMMV!
I used the original RaZberry for many years running on a RPi3 then RPi4.
The RPi3 worked fine, but on a RPi4, the Bluetooth radio shares the default console device, so remapping is required to use both a RaZberry and Bluetooth.
The next issue is updating firmware - the RaZberry could only be updated using the OS image from the manufacturer. This meant shutting down openHAB or HASS, creating a seperate image on a uSD card, booting, and then registration to get a login after flashing, and each time you checked for the next firmware update, your login had been deleted due to inactivity. Firmware updates were required back then to fix several mesh issues I had encountered.
The next issue is the form-factor. The RaZberry assumes installation onto “bare” pin headers on a RPi ONLY. If you use a RPi case, it likely fouls the PCB. In my case, a passive metal heat-block case needed me to manufacture a custom DIL pin header stand-off to raise the RaZberry above the case - which also was acting as a ground-plane and reducing the RF range.
Upgrading from a RaZberry to a USB device meant it could be removed and updated on ANY separate PC or Mac (slight shame as I prefer Linux). A standard case worked fine. Bluetooth just worked. If an upgrade is needed from a RPi to something else - the same radio works on any standard USB port…
will do…