Honeywell or Nest?

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I’ve been using the Nest since they came out and have liked them, despite some shortcomings. One of the biggest issues is that when it was on the old integration it worked great in HA, but once I went with the new integration (paid Google API etc) it has been a bear and I have to manually manage it constantly.

Of course another big issue is that it needs the Internet and it is just more data collection for Google, two things that I don’t care for.

Last year I picked up a Honeywell T6 (Z-Wave) for my RV but haven’t made the changes needed to install it so it’s still sitting in it’s box and just wasting away. With so many rate limiting problems and API problems with Nest I thought I would consider putting this in my house and replacing my Nest.

What are your thoughts? I love the aesthetic of the Nest but I suppose that’s a bit tired now that everyone has one, is it worthwhile to ditch Google and all the problems and just put up a totally local Honeywell instead?

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Think about the pros and cons.

What did nest provide that you couldn’t get elsewhere. If you don’t use those features then you don’t need Nest.

For instance the automate climate features… For me, I keep the house one temp during day and another at night except when out. Those were all the programs I need and my thermo just runs one of those three, period. Auto this or learning super duper climate feature doesn’t matter. A nest in the same install would do nothing differently.

Take that away from the Nest and the only thing I need anymore is connectivity. Any ZWave thermo can give me that, locally.

If you use the advanced thermostat control features, you’d lose that…

Edit:pros of no nest. - not needing to deal with thier… Improved. authentication with google anymore.

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I have 2 NESTS and 4 T6s running in 2 housesHere is my experience.

Nest

  • Pros
    A) separate access path if HASS is offline or dead
    B) reliable - the device just works,
  • Cons
    A) setpoint service calls do not always work, I see a 1-2% failure rate. So you will need to have a script that can retry this.
    B) not controllable during internet outage which usually occur after an extended power outage (even with a backup generator) as eventually the “batteries” on the telecoms stuff on the poles go low.
    C) The HASS integration has some outstanding issues due to googles poor implementation of their pubsub api. For example, if HASS loses connection to internet the entities do not go unavailable. So this is problematic since HASS will be showing incorrect data.

T6

  • Pros
    A) local control, not affected by internet outage
    B) the devices have been reliable doing their job of turning the hvac on and off.
  • Cons
    A) The device has bugs and Honeywell does not release firmware updates. You will need to implement periodic polling of the device in order to get the temperature updating reliably. Also, periodically it reports bogus humidity values, which need to be filtered out. That said I have automations that do this and have been working fine for 2 years
    B) The device display gets confused and sometimes show the setpoint as the current temperature and the temperature as the setpoint. However the thermostat control and data is HASS is correct. But this can cause a bunch of confusion as the display and HASS sometimes don’t match. I haven’t been able to determine when / why it happens.

Note: I’ve only used the T6 with 24vac power and never tried running off the batteries.

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Then given those options, I’d look and see if you can find a better alternative to the T6. If you find such an animal that I think you have your answer. Your issues aren’t moving off Nest - rather you’re moving, to WHAT. :slight_smile:

(slips a link across your desk… Z-Wave Smart Thermostats - Programmable Smart Thermostats – ZWaveProducts)

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What about the cheaper, non learning nest thermostat? I started a post a few weeks ago wondering if it could be supported locally since it has Matter over WIFI.

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Thanks for the input, it’s very helpful!

Nothing, just aesthetics but at the time it was THE thermostat to have for home automation. I had an Insteon Venstar before it that bit the dust many years ago. Got the nest when the company was about a year old.

Been there.

Done that.

Got the T-Shirt! These three reasons are why I’m considering the change. The Nest has been a headache ever since I went to Google API. I was perfectly happy on the legacy API and it worked great but Google said “nope, you are going to lose that soon” so I switched and have had consistent issues ever since.

If that’s all it takes to overcome the humidity and temperature problems then perhaps it’s better since I have control over that one.

That’s all I’ve ever run on either for any thermostat.

I’ve read that the T6 is the best one and, it’s one I have available so it makes it easy. I’m not opposed but I’ve never even heard of the other brands on that link.

If someone builds a way to talk to it over matter then I’m in!

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Here are the package and automation templates. I replicate these using shell scripts.

homeassistant:
  customize:
    climate.bedroom_thermostat:
      min_temp: MIN_TEMP

sensor:
  - platform: filter
    name: "bedroom thermostat humidity"
    entity_id: sensor.bedroom_thermostat_humidity_raw
    filters:
      - filter: outlier
        window_size: 4
        radius: 10.0

recorder:
  include:
    entities:
      - sensor.bedroom_thermostat_temperature
      - sensor.bedroom_thermostat_battery_level
      - sensor.bedroom_thermostat_humidity
      - sensor.bedroom_thermostat_power_management

I discovered that using refresh all caused a high level of TX/RX errors on the thermo - so I went with this approach to poll the different CCs with a delay, I stagger the execution for each thermo - that’s what the first delay is for. Mine are for heat only, if you use cool you’ll want to add the call to get the cool set setpoint.

- id: "T6 bedroom_thermostat Poll Temperatures"
  alias: T6 bedroom_thermostat Poll Temperatures DELAY_SECONDS
  description: "Workaround issue with T6 not always reporting temperatures"
  mode: single
  max_exceeded: silent
  trigger:
    - platform: time_pattern
      minutes: "/10"
    - platform: homeassistant
      event: start
  action:
    - delay: DELAY_SECONDS
    # Refreshes the temperature
    - service: zwave_js.refresh_value
      continue_on_error: true
      data:
        entity_id: sensor.bedroom_thermostat_temperature
        refresh_all_values: false
    - delay:
        seconds: 2
    # https://zwave-js.github.io/node-zwave-js/#/api/CCs/ThermostatOperatingState
    - service: zwave_js.invoke_cc_api
      continue_on_error: true
      data:
        entity_id: climate.bedroom_thermostat
        command_class: "66"
        endpoint: "0"
        method_name: get
        parameters: []
    - delay:
        seconds: 2
    # https://zwave-js.github.io/node-zwave-js/#/api/CCs/ThermostatSetpoint
    # 1 = heat setpoint
    - service: zwave_js.invoke_cc_api
      continue_on_error: true
      data:
        command_class: "67"
        endpoint: "0"
        method_name: get
        parameters:
          - 1
        entity_id: climate.bedroom_thermostat
    - delay:
        seconds: 2
    # https://zwave-js.github.io/node-zwave-js/#/api/CCs/ThermostatMode
    - service: zwave_js.invoke_cc_api
      continue_on_error: true
      data:
        command_class: "64"
        endpoint: "0"
        method_name: get
        parameters: []
        entity_id: climate.bedroom_thermostat
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@PeteRage I just finally moved my Nest over to the Honeywell T6 and have a question for you: does your T6 show “AC mains re-connected: Unknown”? I don’t know if that’s supposed to be telling me that mains dropped then re-acquired or if it’s telling me that it doesn’t recognize the 24v power going to it (which I assume it does since my Nest did and I can control my HVAC).

Thanks!

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I just looked. I have two systems the one that is running on 2023.5.4 both shows this

IMG_3099
IMG_3099618×538 55 KB

On the 2023.9.3 system it is now under Sensors and is unavailable. I’m pretty sure this used to work, so it looks like something is broken.

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Thanks, I restarted HA and it now shows plugged in as well, I guess it just wanted a full restart. I’m anxious not to fight with the Nest anymore every single day multiple times a day!

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In one of the HA videos they said that after the latest Matter update this thermostat was supported, but I haven’t seen any forum posts.

This low cost model isn’t available outside of the US is it? However I did eventually source one in the UK for trying with Matter but it’s something I haven’t got around to yet. I’ll try and find your forum post and update there when I have any news.